Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!lll-winken!sun-barr!newstop!sun!amdcad!amdcad!military From: cfreund@PICA.ARMY.MIL (CCL-L) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Secondary Armament Message-ID: <1991Jun14.080001.19997@amd.com> Date: 13 Jun 91 15:06:52 GMT Sender: military@amd.com Organization: SMCAR-CCL-LG Lines: 63 Approved: military@amd.com From: "Charles T. Freund" (CCL-L) Try looking to some of the helicopter armaments for secondary armament systems. They are relatively lightweight, and while not 360 degree traversing, they usually have a pretty wide field of fire. All you have to do is turn them upside-down and add a sighting system. (note elevation and depression would be reversed if system is inverted) M5 - Also called the THUMPER this is a M75 40mm Grenade Launcher used on various models of UH-1 Hueys. Weight: 484lbs (w/ 302 rounds), Traverse: 60 deg left or right, Elevation: 15 to -35deg, ROF: 230 spm M6 - Quad M60C 7.62mm machineguns (2 left, 2 right) used on UH-1s. A single gun could be adapted for use as a secondary armament system. EL: 9 to -66deg, Trav: 82deg total M21 - This is an updated M6, replacing the 4 M60C with 2 M134 7.62mm miniguns with two 7 tube 2.75in rocket launchers. A single minigun mount could be adapted. EL: 10 to -85deg, Trav: 82deg total M28 - Chin turret on the AH-1G Cobra containing a M134 7.62mm minigun and M129 40mm grenade launcher (or 2 M134's or 2 M129's). EL: 10.6 to -50deg Trav: 107.5 deg left or right XM51 - Nose mounted M129 40mm grenade launcher on the AH-56. EL: 18 to -70deg, Trav: 100 deg left or right XM52 - Belly-mounted XM140 30mm automatic cannon on the AH-56. EL: 27 to -60deg, Trav: 200 deg left or right XM53 - XM51 with a M134 minigun instead of M129. M97 - Chin mounted UTS (Universal Turret System), M197 3-barrel 20mm gatling gun on the AH-1. EL: 20 to -50deg, Trav: 110deg left or right XM120 - Nose mounted XM140 30mm automatic gun on the AH-1G EL: 15 to -40, Trav: 110 left or right M139 - The chin mounted Area Weapon System on the AH-64. This consists on the M230 30mm chain gun. (mounting this uside-down would actually put the gun in the correct orientation, it normally hangs upside down from the helicopter). EL: 11 to -60deg Trav: 100deg left or right This is just a sampling of the US helicpter systems available. Many systems were designed to be adaptible to various guns and calibers. Caliber - There are few calibers readily available for the secondary armament roles. Normally 7.62 NATO is considered the minimum caliber and 20 and 30mm cannon cal is starting to get a bit large, along with 40mm grenades. This leaves us with the 7.62, 12.7, 20, 30 (30x113), and 40 (40x53R) mm rounds. There is also a 15x115mm Belgium round and a 16mm US round in development. There is also a 30mm grenade used by the USSR. Guns - There are a number of guns availible in these calibers ; self powered, externally powered, single vs. multibarreled, etc. Gatling type guns use an inordanate amount of ammunition, and are usually too heavy for such an application. A self powered gun has the advantage that it can be removed from the vehicle and still be functional. My choice would be to bring back the Vickers or Lewis guns in .303 British. I need a continued source of cheap ammo for my Enfield.