Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hassell@news.colorado.edu (Christopher Hassell) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Could Jesus have sinned? Message-ID: Date: 14 Jun 91 03:26:59 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 72 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu bgsuvax!kutz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth J. Kutz) writes: [] In article , lindborg@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Lindborg) writes: [] > In article bgsuvax!kutz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Kenneth J. Kutz) writes: [] > Just a practical note... if Jesus could not have sined (was not capable of [] > sin), then to what degree COULD he have been tempted. Temptation relies [] > on the "tempties" ability to give in to the temptation. ....... [] It seems to me that the number one objection to the stance "Jesus could [] not have sinned" is that this would mean there must have been no [] temptation. I ask the question of the group, can temptation occur when [] the inevitable result is not to give in to it? I believe the answer is [] yes. I agree, but wanted to hit on it from a different angle. [] What is it in the defintion of the word tempt that requires that the [] temptee give in? Here is the definition from Webster's: .... Essentially what I think the subject revolves around is that there is a way which the Lord God is and always will be, and there is the unpredictability we have for ourselves. When Jesus came down to earth to become the pure and yet human sacrifice, he mixed those two things... specifically because they CAN be mixed with Him. In essense.. its sorta like the old stupid debate on Pre-destination. From one angle.. there is the foreknowledge-of-how-things-will-be (the view God has), and from another angle, there is the unpredictability-and-chosen-striving. Jesus strove and pushed and worked hard on this earth, even in being tempted. Because the Logical result was already likely (given if someone KNEW what Yahweh was up to in Jesus :-), it still DOESN'T mean anyone affected how he did it or could FORCE him to sin. In essence.. no one knew he would be sinless and they weren't supposed to know, because they were supposed to watch a man BE sinless.... (also their savior) ...... challenge his presupposed ability to! The question, again, is one of what is RIGHT and predictable through knowledge of God, and two of what is human and requires work and choice given for good! [] His nature (holiness) won out over the "enticement to do wrong". Was Jesus [] "wired for perfection" as some have put it? The Bible tells us "yes" in [] Hebrews 13:8 (quoted above). Was he tempted in all ways, just as we are? The wiring is the question. Only Humans worry consistantly about re-doing things with different artificial circumstances. In truth, God HIMSELF had/has only one state possible for the world and for all points in history. Humans specifically muse what could be done if things were varied! Good thing God designed this world and knew its future even given our freedom of will! His restriction of himself is what let us be sinful, so he put His Son on this earth to do everything even with that same freedom of will and yet did so as God expresses Himself when He is free himself to do so. (if God COULD merely express himself freely and totally, we would be non-existant as a patch of dark next to a supernova) [] -- [] Kenneth J. Kutz Internet kutz@andy.bgsu.edu [] Systems Programmer BITNET KUTZ@ANDY [] University Computer Services UUCP ...!osu-cis!bgsuvax!kutz [] Bowling Green State Univ. US Mail 238 Math Science, BG OH 43403 -- If you are getting mail from me, my apologies for confusiong you ############## ### C>H> ### boulder.colorado.edu!tramp!hassell #### "Nietzche is dead." - God