Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: torbakke@loke.idt.unit.no (Torbjoern Bakke) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: Date: 14 Jun 91 03:35:10 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology (NTH) Lines: 102 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: > Looking at the Bible, one can see that the idea of reincarnation was not > unknnown to the disciples by their question to Jesus: > > "Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born > blind?" (John 9:1-2) How can you say that these verses support the belief that the disciples believed in reincarnation? Are you implying that they thought the man was a reincarnation of his parents? (they were still alive) No - I can not see that this verse in any way supports the idea that the disciples believed in reincarnation. > .... > There are also the questions to Jesus (Matt 16:14) and to John the Baptist > (John 1:21) as to whether each was the reincarnation of the Prophet Elias.. And the answers to these questions where that Jesus was the Messiah, and that John the Baptist was not the Prophet Elias. These verses does not in any way support the idea of reincarnation. > The following words also point to the reality of prenatal existence: > > "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before > thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I > ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer 1:5) Or that God knew what we all will be like, even before we are created. (In this case God talks about Jeremiah) > Although we do not have any words of Jesus refering explicitly to the > fact of reincarnation, certain of His words refer indirectly to it... > > "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be > fulflled." (Matt 24:34) > > The meaning here is that all those human souls incarnated in the Jewish > people during Christ's lifetime who had not accepted his teaching, or had > even reviled, mocked, and persecuted Him, would be incarnated again on > earth today at the time of the Last Judgment in order to have to make > their final decision for or against the Message of God... No, I do not think so - I believe that we got only one chance (one lifetime) to accept Jesus as our saviour. I think this is supported in Hebrews 9:27-28 and John 11. I would rather believe what is directly supported by the bible than believing something that is "not denied". > Too, the words of Paul, "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." > (Gal 6:7) express the knowledge of the Law of Sowing and Reaping, which > is often carried out over the course of several earth lives. You don't need several earth lives to verify this verse, it can easily be done during one earth-life (or even in one day). The idea of reincarnation and karma comes from Greek philosophers like Plato, and from "mystical" religions like Hinduism, New Age etc. It does not come from the bible. > Today, reincarnation is considered to be "Eastern thought". It is the > Christian teachings above all which reject reincarnation, or the exist- > ence of the soul before incarnation. I think the rejection of reincarnation is very legitimate. The bible tells us that we will die only once (that is - before the final judgement). Keep in mind that the bible talks about a first death, and a second death. There is no third, fourth or fifth death. > [...deleted stuff about the annulment of the doctrine of reincarnation > and anathematization...] > > The knowledge of reincarnation was thus withheld from many people, who > with this knowledge could have given a deeper meaning and greater sig- > nificance to their lives on earth and in the beyond. Reincarnation has nothing to do with knowledge, it is a matter of belief. In my opinion reincarnation is a delusion that lead people away from the heart of the matter, namely that we can have eternal life if we believe in Jesus (John 3:16). > In summary, it cannot be proven that Christ did not speak about rein- > carnation and that His words were simply not recorded. We do know that > there were "many things He had yet to say to us" (John 16:12) and to me > this demands that as followers of His Message we do our utmost to be open > to that new knowledge, which shall no doubt come to us at the right time. > > It then becomes our own responsibility to recognize and to make use of it > for our own personal spiritual awakening and ascent. Think about it! Jesus still had many things to say to us before he died, and I am sure he still has. But - I do not believe that he ever will support the theory of reincarnation. The laws of karma as we find them in New Age and eastern religions seem to contradict the fact that it is not our deeds that save us, it is the grace of God. -Torbjoern- -- ----- Torbjorn Bakke (Research Assistant) Internet: torbakke@idt.unit.no Div. of Computer Systems & Telematics torbakke@solan.unit.no Norwegian Institute of Technology