Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: horsch@cs.ubc.ca (Michael Horsch) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The New Birth Message-ID: Date: 15 Jun 91 06:09:40 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada Lines: 51 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes: [...] :Michael mentioned a "confession of sorts" by Nicodemus. : :Nicodemus originally recognized Jesus as "a teacher come from God" :in John 3:2. : :Logically, Nicodemus (a man of the Pharisees...a ruler of the Jews) must have :either seen some of the teachings of Jesus Christ in person, or come :by it by word of mouth, or etc. Anyways, my point is Nicodemus only :acknowledged Jesus as a teacher come from God. He HAD NOT acknowledged :Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior like a born again Christian :has. Before Jesus spoke to Nicodemus there was no terminology for Nicidemus to use other than "a teacher from God." The phrase "born again" was introduced in Jesus' reply to Nicodemus, and the idea of Jesus as Saviour is presented after the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. :Nicodemus had never truly seen himself as lost and deserving of hell. This is not so obvious. John doesn't tell us much about what Nicodemus believed. The phrase "lost and deserving of hell" is not found in the conversation either. So, he may have believed he was righteous in his role as a Pharisee, but maybe he knew that he could not but fail to keep the law perfectly, even though he would try. John doesn't say anything about this, and we can only speculate. [...] :My other point is that salvation is NOT a tingly feeling. :Being born again is not the after effect of conversion. Conversion :is being born again. Trusting in a feeling (rather than :repenting to God the Father and placing all your faith in the :Lord Jesus Christ to save you) IS NOT Bible salvation. :I'm not suggesting what Michael was trying to say in this last paragraph. :I'm just clarifying, here. We agree (I think -- your original article seemed to indicate otherwise). But you cannot then ask a Christian "Are you really sure you're saved?" which is what your original article also was asking. :K. Paulson :N. D. S. U. student :1372 32nd Street South West #20 :Fargo, ND 58013 Mike (goo) -- Michael C. Horsch Department of Computer Science horsch@cs.ubc.ca University of British Columbia