Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: Date: 15 Jun 91 06:23:45 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 87 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu ejprosser@ucdavis.edu (Eric J. Prosser) writes: >In article sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: >> >> "Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born >> blind?" (John 9:1-2) >You are right. Jesus never did speak of it. I read through the CONTEXT >of this passage and reincarnation has nothing to do with it. Instead of merely invoking the word CONTEXT, why don't you say what you feel the CONTEXT to be? I will give the passage in its CONTEXT, as I understand it: And as He was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, "Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him." (John 9:1-3) Jesus then proceeded to cure the blind man. I suggest that the implication of reincarnation/pre-existence in the disciples' question was not denied by Jesus, although He certainly was presented here with the opportunity to do so, should He have wanted to. >>There are also the questions to Jesus (Matt 16:14) and to John the Baptist >>(John 1:21) as to whether each was the reincarnation of the Prophet Elias.. >Read your Bible! 2 Kings 2:11 states that Elisha never experienced death. >Again, you are reading into something that has nothing to do with >reincarnation. Am I right in saying that in order for reincarnation to >happen, you must experience death first? I do not understand 2 Kings 2:11 to state that Elias never experienced death. In the first place, everyone dies, in the earthly sense. There are no exceptions to this law. This tells us that what was seen by Eliseus must have been the non-physical body (or soul) of Elias being taken up by a "fiery chariot and fiery horses". The fact that the fifty men were unable to locate the physical body of Elias does not mean that it was taken up as well. It simply means they could not find it for whatever reason. Perhaps they were not meant to find it. Also, those questioning Jesus and John the Baptist were surely aware that these men came to earth as normal children, and not upon fiery chariots, yet they asked them just the same about Elias. And there is Matt 17:11-13 in which Jesus appears to state that John the Baptist is indeed the reincarnation of Elias. In any case, I also would suggest that CONTEXT is a tricky word to be tossing about when trying to understand statements recorded long after the fact, and translated into an entirely different language. In the final analysis I think we need to do our best to make *sense* of what we know from *all* sources, and not just to build up an entire struct- ure upon a single obscure passage or two. As I have already stated, the knowledge of reincarnation allows us to explain many otherwise inexplicable happenings, instead of simply ignoring them altogether, and in fact there are many cases which offer strong evidence for it. >Mark, take a look at all of the scripture you pointed out and read it in >its complete context. Don't go into it with the mindset that you are going >to prove reincarnation, but dig into it to get the entire feeling of it. >And don't go reading books written by man first! Read the Bible, maybe >the entire book you quoted from, and find out what Jesus was really talking >about. I think you may come out seeing things clearer. No. I do not wish to use the Bible to prove reincarnation, but simply to suggest that it is not incompatible with the original teaching of Christ. I am suggesting that reincarnation is one of the "many things" that Jesus had yet to say to us, that we would not have understood *at that time*. I see things quite clearly already, thank you, and I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that reincarnation is true and compatible with the original, undistorted Message of Christ, though He did not teach it. When presented with the opportunity to speak against reincarnation, He did not ever do so to our knowledge. But the people of that time were not yet matured enough spiritually to hear more about it. Regards, Mark Sandrock -- BITNET: sandrock@uiucscs Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Internet: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Chemical Sciences Computing Services Voice: 217-244-0561 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801