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From: simmonds@demon.siemens.com (Tom Simmonds)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: RE: Awakening from the Dream of Experience
Message-ID: <1991Jun12.164103.29404@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 12 Jun 91 16:41:03 GMT
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> adobe!!asanders@decwrl.dec.com (Alan Sanders)
>Subject: Awakening From the Dream of Experience

>| Which kind of dream is most conducive to the possibility of enlightenment?
>
>						    -Tom Simmonds
>
>Does the dreamer awake because he dreams of awakening?
>
>					 -Alan

That's an interesting question.  I'll get back to it in a minute.

My point was that, at least for most of us, enlightenment does not come
easily.  We must work at our practice in order to break through our attachments
to ideas and the habits that keep us bound.  In order to do that, we have to
have the time and the energy for it, and we need a peaceful environment in
which we can keep distractions to a minimum.  If we had to spend all of our
time and effort, with none to spare, just to provide ourselves with the basic
necessities and to defend ourselves, we would have no opportunity to seek
enlightenment.  If we had to struggle constantly, we'd be too busy and
preoccupied to sit and meditate.  So, we need a world that is orderly and in
which such things as healthy food, clean water, clean air, shelter, etc. are
readily available.  If we have endless wars or if we destroy our environment,
whether it's a dream or not, we will be too busy dodging bullets or gasping
for air to be concerned about truth.

Getting back to whether or not the dreamer awakens by dreaming of awakening,
I'm hesitant to try to stretch the analogy too far.  I've had dreams where
I realized, within the dream, that I was dreaming.  On some occasions, I
have been able, upon realizing that, to awaken myself deliberately, simply
by thinking "I want to wake up now" and making an effort to open my eyes.
However, I don't think that enlightenment is anything like that.  When I
awaken from a dream, I go from one world of objects, events and experiences
to another.  If what I call my "waking" world is also a dream, does
enlightenment mean awakening from that world into yet another one?  I don't
think so.  That's what I mean by stretching the analogy too far - it results
in a false conception of an endless regression of "dream-worlds".  I suppose
somebody could hallucinate him/herself into that kind of situation, and I
suspect that some have done so, but that wouldn't be enlightenment.

When we say that this world is *like* a dream, what it means is that the
objects and events in it have no separate existence or identity apart from 
the flow of experience.  In *that* sense, they are like objects and events
in a dream.  That doesn't mean that we should imagine that there is some
other world to "wake up" to.

As for the question you asked, this is my opinion about it:
If a "dreamer" thinks s/he is separate from his/her experience, and if s/he
"dreams" of awakening, without giving up attachment to the concept of a
separate self, and clinging to the idea that there is some other "world"
to wake up to, s/he is a long way from enlightenment.  The idea of
awakening itself can be the very thing that stands in the way of
enlightenment.
--
 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
  ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))tom simmonds))))))))))))))))))))
 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
  ))))))) "True beauty consists in purity of heart." - Mahatma Gandhi ))))))))