Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!orca!baby!rjones From: rjones@baby.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp) Newsgroups: comp.admin.policy Subject: Re: SUSPEND SYSOPS, NOT STUDENTS Message-ID: <1991Jun18.174430.12050@dsd.es.com> Date: 18 Jun 91 17:44:30 GMT References: <20740@slice.ooc.uva.nl> <20790@slice.ooc.uva.nl> <1991Jun18.033333.27450@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> Sender: usenet@dsd.es.com Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp. Lines: 53 Nntp-Posting-Host: 130.187.85.165 In article <1991Jun18.033333.27450@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, jarober@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (DE Robertson james an 740-9172) writes: >Ok. ow about if I drive around and test out the security systems of houses ? >I check doors, see if I can open windows from the outside. I have a freind >who has a set of lockpicks help me out. If I succeed in breaking in, I leave >a note letting you know that your security is poor. > What you advocate with computers is exactly analogous to the above. I >seriously doubt that you would condone such behaviour in my scenario. And if >you do, you are plain foolish. I'm afraid that they are not "exactly analogous"... A house provides different things to the owner than a computer... Houses give shelter and protection, both from the elements and from other people, privacy and such... The problem when someone enters your house sans permission is that if you had been at home you probably would have suffered some physical harm, etc... (Assuming that the intruder was doing it with malicious intent)... A computer is a different thing... It still provides privacy, etc... But someone breaking into your system is not going to do you any physical harm... The most you lose is some data, and possibly cputime... It's what happens with that data... If I wander around inside the building here, into a few offices, etc.. Then I don't think I'm doing anything wrong (If I go through someone's desk, then I am screwing up, since it is against company policy...) If I give my badge (no keys here... Mag-strip readers) to someone else on the outside... Who knows... If someone saw that we used badges here, and knew how to copy them or forge them, did, and then went into the building and walked up to security, and told them that they didn't really work there, and explained what they had done, with an offer to show them how to fix it so that it wouldn't happen again, I doubt the people at security would pass up the help that person would be offering them... Whether or not ANY analogy can even be applied to deciding right or wrong in the case of password files, I think not... There aren't enough things that match up... The effects, ideas are all different than RL... >Develop a sense of right and wrong. > >jarober@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu I have... I like mine, please don't give me yours... In my opinion, yours is as useless to me as mine is to you... Please confine your morals to yourself... -- "Don't do anything I wouldn't do. And if you do, take pictures." -Al on QL "Zootlewurdle." -Marvin "Sir, they're changing color." -Lt. Worf "Not a problem." -Parker Lewis Ray Jones (Official Maintainer of Everything) rjones@dsd.es.com Disclaimer : My employer doesn't know I post...