Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!think.com!yale.edu!ox.com!umich!sharkey!cfctech!teemc!sycom!rkushner From: rkushner@sycom.UUCP (Ronald Kushner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: (Video) Hardware Idiots ? Message-ID: Date: 15 Jun 91 15:47:58 GMT References: <1991Jun10.103543.22097@news.iastate.edu> <1991Jun10.135715.23727@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <1131@stewart.UUCP><1991Jun15.032812.15122@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: Michigan Information eXchange Lines: 83 rjc@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >In article <1131@stewart.UUCP> jerry@stewart.UUCP (Jerry Shekhel) writes: >>rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >>> >>>No they are not hacks, they are clever optimizations. Marc, I'd hate >>>to see you EVER design a computer system. Your answer to every problem would >>>be brute force brute cost approach. A flicker-fixer is much cheaper >>>than redesigning the whole chipset for twice the speed. The flicker >>>fixer works, so what's your point? If something works and gets the >>>job done cheaper and quicker I call it brilliant. >>> >> >>The flicker fixer IS a total hack, not to mention the biggest ripoff in >>the history of computer hardware. Just think: if you have an IBM you can >>get a VGA card that produces a 72Hz 1024x768 non-interlaced 256 color >>display (as well as a dozen other resolutions) for $175, and if you have >>an Amiga, it'll cost you $300 to "fix" your 640x400 screen. What's wrong >>with this picture? > > You can't animate super-VGA like you can on the Amiga. I just love >how people support they're arguements in .advocacy with subtle >misinformation. $300 is the list price of the A2320 flickerfixer, >$175 is the street-price of VGA cards. Compare the real prices. >The A2320 can be purchased for around $220 now. > > What you don't understand is the difference of building off >an existing design (the custom chips) and starting from scratch. >The Amiga motherboard (chip bus) isn't fast enough for 1024x768x8 >and a plug in replacement isn't going to fix that. Starting from >scratch will be expensive, take long, and be risky. What about those >millions of A500 users out there, are they all willing to send in their >computers for a motherboard swap or a $200 installation for a daughterboard? I have kept back alot of emotion on this issue, but the plain fact is you are not going to see 24 bit graphics on an Amiga 500. You may not even see 8 bit graphics on an Amiga 500. They are limited to 512K chip ram at the factory and you start adding these new modes, some original hardware flaws probably will have to be addressed across millions of units. The blitter would need drastic improvements. Its easier to move on.. How many people would start griping if the Amiga 3000 had a 8 bit color 32 bit wide set of custom chips released for it? Lets say it costs $27 million to engineer the custom chips from a clean sheet design. With only 12,000 Amiga 3000's sold, it would cost $2166 per unit just to pay off the engineering, not including added production costs of making different parts. Lets say only 300 people go for this option? Commodore has lost $20++ million dollars on this pet project. Sure it makes the Amiga look better in a few eyes, it will add a feature no one will support in their software because it wasn't done across the line. Any improvement to the custom chips, other than 32 bit wide bus, will have to be done across the line to pay for itself, and for people to support it. And it probably will break the Toaster again, and then we see a bizillion messages on the net about how Commodore screwed up again... The solution will be Zorro III cards that were designed from scratch, that had some kind of risc processor on it, and not to worry about compatablity in hardware, and a device that will drive it...I hate reading people promising the death of the Amiga. They have 57% of the desktop video market, and thats a mighty impressive figure. Does Mac have 57% of the word processing market? Last time I checked, only 380,000 word processing packages were sold in the Mac market, out of 1.2 million units shipped. Either they got a piracy problem beyond belief, or people are not using the machines like everyone says they are. I believe the Mac does have an mighty impressive chunk of the desktop publishing market..But I have not hard facts to back up this belief of mine... The Zorro III card idea would really be good for what I WANT to do...I have been thinking of plastering two Amiga 500 motherboards together in a custom case with a parnet set up, where you could drive two seperate displays. An genlockable card, or a card where you could set up video displays on one single unit would be ideal and probably better than me hacking two Amigas together and trying to sell it under my own name. But then again, I am looking at this from a video production background, and I KNOW whats needed to be really bopo-zocko! And of course, it would have to be engineered in America and assembled in America...Sorry, but I really see the cause and effect relationships of what happens when you ship American jobs out of North America. -- C-UseNet V0.42e Ronald Kushner Life in Hell BBS +1 (313) 939-6666 P.O. Box 353 14400 USR HST V.42 & V.42bis Sterling Heights, MI 48311-0353 Complete Amiga Support UUCP: uunet!umich!vela!sycom!rkushner (We are not satanic, just NUTS!) DISCLAIMER: I say what I mean, and mean what I say.