Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!uniwa!DIALix!metapro!bernie From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: The 68050 - end of the 680x0? (was Re: The Amiga's Future) Message-ID: <1991Jun17.052423.7631@metapro.DIALix.oz.au> Date: 17 Jun 91 05:24:23 GMT References: <5068@orbit.cts.com> <16647@darkstar.ucsc.edu> < <1308@cbmger.UUCP> <28@ryptyde.UUCP> > <01dH!cmr@cs.psu.edu> <1991Jun10.072945.8821@neon.Stanford.EDU> <22365@cbmvax.commodore.com> <1991Jun13.003707.19785@neon.Stanford.EDU> <2 < Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia Lines: 54 In <22460@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: >I guess Sun would be a little surprised to hear that, since they replaced the >68K with SPARC, and in fact, really hadn't quite "taken off" as a major force >in the workstation market until they did. But I do agree that the SPARC >architecture is weak when compared to the current alternatives. Clone makers >don't care about that, they're not going to go out and build a brand new >computer based on 88110 or R4000 or any merchant PA-RISC that they can >eventually do. They're going to copy something. SPARC machines are faster >than 80x86s, and Sun's making it easy for these guys to make these copies (of >course, not real fast ones, but the low end systems). What, no "real fast ones"? I hear that Cypress makes 40MHz set which run just as fast as anything "produced" by Sun and some "clone" makers actually get their systems using these chipsets running faster. There's also a 40MHz, single-chip SPARC on the horizon. That's an awful lot of grunt. Some of this discussion really should be in comp.arch, but all of these people who expound the virtues of RISC often ignore the fact that binaries on RISC are larger. As an example, I've had binaries explode by 100%, transferring from 68030 to 88000. Even with optimizers on, there was still a 50% growth. The RISC therefore needs more native MIPS to achieve the same real throughput. The 68k architecture has a fairly compact instruction set, probably because the instructions vary in in length, whereas RISC architectures tend to have fixed length instructions. It costs more to store the binaries both on disk, and while executing. Don't get me wrong, RISC has its place, I just don't think it's on the kitchen table (yet). As a low-end workstation CPU, the 68k should be more cost-effective. I simply can't imagine why Sun didn't continue with the 68k workstations at entry level. Even their last 68k series was knobbled through not making the best use that they could of the `030. Spec's were not significantly better than for the `020 predecessors. The `040 is not the beginning of the end. It's a continuation of the development. If we ever see the `050, it would have to be another quantum leap above the `040, with much extra functionality. The 030 to 040 increment incorporated the FPU, the 020 to 030 increment incorporated the MMU, the 010 to 020 brought 32 bits. What else can Motorola provide, except 64 bits? (I know that other features were also added at the various stages, I'm just mentioning the more visible.) If we don't see the `050, then the `040 has a very long product life. One never knows if CSG will start to make them if Motorola lose interest. :-) -- Bernd Felsche, _--_|\ #include Metapro Systems, / sold \ Fax: +61 9 472 3337 328 Albany Highway, \_.--._/ Phone: +61 9 362 9355 Victoria Park, Western Australia v Email: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au