Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!ptimtc!nntp-server.caltech.edu!sol1.gps.caltech.edu!CARL From: carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu (Carl J Lydick) Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: Fred's Operatic Death Message-ID: <1991Jun17.133545.6187@nntp-server.caltech.edu> Date: 17 Jun 91 13:35:45 GMT References: <1991Jun7.215211.22450@sequent.com> <1991Jun14.083756.1@vf.jsc.nasa.gov>,<1991Jun17.055344.8332@sequent.com> Sender: news@nntp-server.caltech.edu Reply-To: carl@sol1.gps.caltech.edu Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera Lines: 61 In article <1991Jun17.055344.8332@sequent.com>, szabo@sequent.com writes: >In article <1991Jun14.083756.1@vf.jsc.nasa.gov> kent@vf.jsc.nasa.gov writes: > >>The kind of arrogant attitude you project with statements like "astronaut >>groupies" and implying that pro-manned space people call finaciers "Bean >>counters" makes me discount your arguments. > >"Astronaut groupie" is a description based on observations of people >flocking out to Edwards to watch the Shuttle land, getting astronaut's >autographs, and worshipping deceased astronauts as martyrs. This is >very similar to the behavior of a rock band groupie. I don't see >any reason to make my language less descriptive of reality. Well, then maybe it's time you made a reality check. I've never been to Edwards to watch the shuttle land. If I were to go, it would be to watch the SHUTTLE land, and if they ever make a remotely-controlled shuttle landing, I might consider that interesting enough to compensate for the inconvenience and actually go watch it. I think far too much has been made of those who died on Challenger. They knew the job was dangerous when they took it, and were adequately compensated (they must have been; they boarded the flight of their own free will: nobody put a gun to their heads and told them to get on the ship or die) for the risks involved. Either that or they were just plain too stupid to understand what was going on, and I'm disinclined to believe that was the case. I've been to exactly one launch, and that was because the payload for which I work was being launched, and I'd just as soon have seen it launched on an unmanned vehicle. I think this sort of attitude qualifies me as not being an "astronaut groupie". HOWEVER, I DO WANT TO SEE A PERMANENT MANNED PRESENCE IN SPACE. The reasons for this are complex, and don't have anything to do with groupieism, and I resent it when you describe me, and others like me, as "astronaut groupies". >Some of these people do in fact call the politicians who fund their >programs, and people who keep track of those funds, "bean counters". >_That_ is arrogance. There have been at least 3 examples of this >perjorative in this newsgroup during the last year. I encountered it >repeatedly as a member of NSS. Many do in fact discount scientist's >opinions while claiming that their projects are for "science". That is >hypocrisy. And a lot of the people who make the decisions ARE bean counters (actually, more likely, vote counters). Not all of them, but a sizeable number (or, given a lot of decisions that have been made, it sure as hell looks that way). Hell, it was the bean-counters that managed to turn a basically useful idea (a space station) into the boondoggle that Fred became. They decided that to please enough constituents, they had to try to make Fred all things to all people. The (very predictable) outcome was a plan for something that wouldn't do ANYBODY any good. >The fact that your employer, JSC, gets its revenues via the IRS >for astronaut projects makes me discount your "pro-manned" >statements. Quit wasting my tax money making self-serving posts to the >net. Quit wasting my money on engineer-welfare projects like Fred. Get a >real job. Quit wasting your own tax money making self-serving posts to the net that end up being read by people on the government payroll! You've wasted more bandwidth than anybody else I've seen on this group. It you'd just remove your irrelevent diatribes and polemics from your posts, you'd cut down the network traffic on this group by at least 5%. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL