Path: utzoo!telecom-request Date: Mon, 24 Jun 91 21:24:56 -0400 From: Mike Godwin Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Subject: Re: These People and Institutions Were Hurt by Len Message-ID: Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation Sender: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Approved: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Submissions-To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 11, Issue 488, Message 3 of 7 Lines: 104 In article Bill Kennedy writes: > My concern is strictly for the damage that Len did to people and > organizations who were just whooshed into his vortex. This entire posting is driven by an immense ignorance of the timetable of events that led to Len Rose's prosecution. > Not common courtesy or respect for Len, but rather HIS lack of it for > others. It is not a violation of common courtesy to be investigated because one sent a file to Craig Neidorf. This is why Len was investigated. > Steve Jackson games - They never would have become vulnerable to SS > abuse had Len not made excursions beyond reason and the law. This > wasn't Tanner's point, but it's my take on it. This is false. Steve Jackson Games was investigated because of the alleged "theft" of the E911 document. Len never possessed that document. He never had any link with the events at Steve Jackson Games. If Len's reputation had not already been damaged for other reasons, he would be able to sue William Kennedy for this statement alone and win. It is sloppy, reckless, malicious, and ignorant. > Usenet killer/attctc - This invaluable resource and national spoke in > the Usenet wheel would not have been shut down had Len not decided to > joyride beyond the bounds of propriety and common sense. Please explain how Len caused AT&T to shut down Charlie Boykin's system. It is unclear how Len has the power to push AT&T around. > Southwestern Bell - I'd use his name but I don't have his permission. > He lost his job, for all intent and purposes, despite his *total* > exhonoration in the matter. He was put under a microscope, > intimidated, and otherwise mistreated and had to leave the company. > His only "mistake"? He was honestly and innocently associated with > Len Rose. Then the abuse was Southwestern Bell's, not Len's. Nobody forced SW Bell to act unethically. > AT&T employee - Ditto above. In my view these two people lost their > jobs just because they had dealings with Len Rose in all good faith. If they did nothing wrong, and their employers nevertheless fired them, it doesn't not take a moral philosopher to figure out that the responsibility for the firing should not be laid at Len's door. > Southwestern Bell who had > sponsored and underwritten it for years decided to shut it down on > four days' notice and I can't be convinced that it wasn't realted to > the internal investigation stimulated by the Len Rose case. Of course you "can't be convinced" of this. It would require weighing the facts and going beyond mere speculation. It would require risking being proved wrong. It might require a public apology to Len. (You already owe him one for your statement about SJGames.) > Unnamed person Austin - I don't have his permission either so he'll > have to stay anonymous too. His apartment was raided and all of his > electronic stuff confiscated the same day as Steve Jackson Games, same > city, Austin, TX. This individual is now having to file a lawsuit to > get his gear back (no charges were ever filed) and it costs him money > to do that. Len's stuff was returned. Of the people searched in Austin, two had no association with Len's investigation at all, and the third does not blame Len for the abuses inflicted upon him by the federal government. Or, at least, not the last time I spoke with him about Len. > He caused a lot of grief. He grieved some people who could have been > spared had he been able to contain himself. He didn't, they weren't > spared. This is simply raving. Len never forced the government or private companies to fire or harass anyone. Most of the investigations followed from massive mistakes on the part of government investigators and private security agents. Len can't be held responsible for the stupidity of the government. > He's headed for the hoosegow, but I think he and we would be better > served if he could get some treatment for what makes him hurt others. I think you should get treatment for the condition that makes you ignore facts that don't fit your theories. > Don't slather me with "it was the big bad > feds"; had he not attracted their attention they'd have left him (and > the rest of us) alone. The government is not a natural event like a rockslide or hurricane; government agents bear moral responsibility for their actions. The same goes for private employers. Holding Len responsible for what the government and private employers chose stupidly to do is to assume that only Len is capable of making moral judgments. Even the defendants in the Steve Jackson Games case deserve a higher estimation of moral responsibility than that. Mike Godwin, mnemonic@eff.org (617) 864-1550 EFF, Cambridge, MA