Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!navas From: navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: Free CDTV Message-ID: <14251@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 24 Jun 91 22:56:28 GMT References: <14234@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> <1991Jun24.143041.30970@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> Sender: news@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU Lines: 103 In article <1991Jun24.143041.30970@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > Whine... Of course, this is .advocacy, right? >>Of course, this is because Cmdre appears too CHEAP to go out and teach them >>themselves. Geez, ya'know folks, we're (hmm, at least I'm) loyal to AMIGA >>not COMMODORE -- unless you start providing solutions to our problems, why >>are we fanatics going to help you with yours? If someone bought out Cmdre's >>Amiga rights, I'd dump them along with the rest of my trash. > Whine... We keep saying (here and elsewhere) that we are >the best salesmen for the Amiga that Commodore has had. Yeah, we are. But exactly what does this say more about, our salesmanship, or Commodore's lack thereof? >Commodore >CAN'T teach every Macys, etc., outlet how to market the CDTV. Why not? They hire a hundred people, each one goes to a separate city and holds a training seminar. If the cost of this is deferred for six months, the program will more than pay for itself. For those places missed by such an effort, video training tapes are made, and deals are struck with managements, etc. Cmdre has, what, six months to take a significant market share before CD-I arrives? If this is Cmdre's best, we/they are in a bit more trouble than I had thought. >Since when do those stores know anything about electronics >anyway. Let me give you an example that Leo gave last Thursday at Badge. Seems that he went in to a Macy's outlet and they had a CDTV on the floor. Nobody knew anything about it except that "the sound quality sucked, so why bother." Of course, that's because they had it hooked up to a TV's internal speakers... [Well, it went something like that, anyway] I'm not asking for a miracle here, but it seems to me that folks in the Bay Area are going to be one of the better markets, and it would be nice if they would come with SOMETHING that tells them how to hook the thing up, and SOMEBODY to force them to deal with the situation. CDTV is cool when demonstrated by someone like Leo, and B-o-r-i-n-g when demoed by the staff at the local Amiga dealership. > The idea is to have us actually go down to the store and >explain things. If people are willing to do it, is there a reason >Commodore shouldn't take advantage of it? If you think the people >who do it are stupid, that is one thing. Calling Commodore stupid >for using practically free marketing is, of itself, stupid. No, I'm calling Commodore stupid mostly because I don't USE the language which would have to be employed to adequately express the situation :) Firstly, to have the temerity as to expect that WE are going to market this for them is sad. But it appears to me that that is the only thing they ARE doing (at least out here) -- that is what I'm calling stupid. Commodore has always been using my free marketing, the idea being that if we sell more machines, they provide us with better computers. I've been waiting for better graphics chips for a LOOONG time -- heck even the U Lowell board would be better than nothing. It seemed to be working at the '89 Fall DevCon, so two years later it's, where? How long will I wait to get a CD-ROM/CDTV compatible player for my machine? Sure, whine whine whine, but unless Commodore invests in their future, they aren't going to HAVE a future, and that's bad for ME (as an Amiga programmer). The only thing they will have is their copyrights and patents and a couple of lawyers to enforce them [like, Apple Records???], meaning that no one else will get the technology either. So where does that leave either of us? You say be patient -- I've been patient! I dutifully report scads of OS bugs, have arguments with Cmdre as to what is, and what is not, correct program behaviour, and what does it get me? Bugs I reported in 1.4 still haven't been fixed (I had to re-report them to get them fixed), and features that were supposed to be in there LONG ago still aren't (VM, etc.). In addition, features that OUGHT to be there (like resource tracking) aren't, and apparently never will be. And that's the engineering department -- they're the co-operative part of Cmdre, we're talking about marketing!! You don't fix what ain't broke, but if it's broke you don't wait until it fixes itself. Of course, what I'm doing here may blow up in my face, but better a dead duck than a lame duck.... > Besides, you got the deal wrong. The individual group >members, if they "sell" a lot, can get a commission of a CDTV. Completely possible. I was doing my best to quote Leo, but I don't quite have perfect recall. :) I buy quality stuff, that's why I bought a Yamaha kX88 instead of a toy synth., that's why I have a Nec 4D instead of a 1930, and that's why I bought an A3000 and not a clone. That Commodore could care less about their marketing quality burns. That their OS (in particular their user interface) is second rate doesn't really bug me -- I write user interfaces for kicks. But to, by extension, say that the problem doesn't exist WOULD BE stupid. David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu 2.0 :: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus