Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnews!cbnews!military From: dthompso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David G Thompson) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: German F-4 variant Message-ID: <1991Jun21.013542.12347@cbnews.cb.att.com> Date: 21 Jun 91 01:35:42 GMT Sender: military@cbnews.cb.att.com (william.a.thacker) Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 46 Approved: military@att.att.com From: dthompso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David G Thompson) I'm curious about an alleged German variant of the F-4 Phantom which was included in Avalon Hill's simulation game "Flight Leader" (1986). Admittedly this is not the most authoritative source, but since the people at A.H. usually seem to do their homework pretty well, I assume it probably has at least *some* basis in reality. The aircraft is supposedly designated the ICE, although I don't know what that stands for, and seemed to be dedicated to the air- superiority role. Improvements over existing Phantoms seemed to be mainly in the areas of intercept radar and maneuverability, both of which in game-terms came out equivalent to those of the F-15. I think there was a major improvement in speed as well, and that the ICE was supposed to enter service that year--1986. This sounds rather like the ca. 1973 situation when McDonnell- Douglas supporters argued that the souped-up F-4S (with leading- edge slats, etc.) made the brand-new Tomcat unnecessary, doesn't it? (Except that the F-15 already had been around for a while.) Can somebody shed some light on this? Is this just a product of the game designers' imaginations, was the ICE a stillborn idea, or does this Luftwaffe super-Phantom actually exist? If so, does it really approach the Eagle's performance? Finally, as a follow-on question, if the Germans *don't* have this Phantom-on-steroids available, isn't it about time they started thinking about acquiring reasonably up-to-date air- superiority fighters and/or interceptors? These former-DDR MiG- 29 Fulcrums of which they seem to be disposing so casually probably could out-fight anything in the current Luftwaffe inventory (other than the hypothetical ICE), couldn't they? (German friends: yes, I know, this is all irrelevant because of course the BRD would never be involved in any conflict without its NATO allies, including the U.S., who can supply plenty of air-superiority assets. But just supposing . . .) -- David G. Thompson (dthompso@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) . . . no need to qualify my opinions; I'm in academia!