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From: skumar@smdvx1.intel.com (Sitanshu Kumar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Seven Stages of Life - Da Avabhasa
Message-ID: <1991Jun21.220008.29472@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 21 Jun 91 22:00:08 GMT
References: <1991Jun21.063840.2827@nas.nasa.gov>
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In article <1991Jun21.063840.2827@nas.nasa.gov> cyee@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Chut Ngeow YEE) writes:
>>Roger Adams (radams@cerritos.edu) writes
>
>>Yee (cyee@bruce.cs.monas) writes:
>>>process of the being. And, traditionally, the ultimate achievement of the
>>>fifth stage of life is absorption in mystical union with the Divine, which
>>>in the Yogic traditions is called "nirvikalpa samadhi" (formless ecstasy)
>>>and which in the Western esoteric traditions is called "gnosis" (Divine
>>>knowledge).
>
>>There is the mistaken notion here that nirvikalpa samadhi belongs to the
>>fifth stage of life which I presume we are to think is of lesser value
>>than the sixth or seventh.  Nirvikalpa samadhi is always referred to as
>>being the highest state of consciousness and not just by those who are
>>termed "Yogis".  Ramana Maharshi said that nirvikalpa samadhi,
>>which he termed "Sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi" (to distinguish it from "Kevala
>>Nirvikalpa Samadhi" in which the body and senses have to be stilled and is
>>not permanent since you awaken from it after physical activity resumes) is
>>the state of the Self-realized Sage in which the mind has been resolved
>>into the Self and has been lost.  
>
>Thanks for the above clarification.
>
>The confusion is only in language. The fifth stage realization that Da
>Avabhasa referred to IS Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi, which he also called
>Conditional Nirvikalpa Samadhi (conditioned upon the state of body-mind) or
>simply Nirvikalpa Samadhi. The seventh stage Realization that he referred to
>is Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi, which he also called Unconditional Nirvikalpa
>Samadhi, or simply Sahaja Samadhi.
>
>Also, the body and mind is not lost in any stage of realization. In the
>seventh stage realization the body-mind and the world are simply Re-cognized
>as what they are, a non-binding, spontaneous arising in the Divine Self. In
>this stage of Realization the opposite motives identification with and
>dissociation from the conditional world are utterly transcended. Da
>Avabhasa also referred to the seventh stage Realization as 'Open-eyed'.
>
>>>Thus, in the seventh stage of life, the Realizer enjoys continuous,
>>>permanent, Perfect identification with Divine Being Itself, and he or she
>>>experiences no "radical" or fundamental difference between Divine
>>>Consciousness and body, psyche, self, or any and all psycho-physical stages
>>>and conditions.
>>
>>This is what nirvikalpa samadhi is - a permanent state of divine union.
>
>I agree. Except that Da Avabhasa called it Sahaja Samadhi, or Unconditional
>Nirvikalpa Samadhi. He use Nirvikalpa Samadhi to mean exclusively Kevala
>Nirvikalpa Samadhi, or Conditional Nirvikalpa Samadhi.
>
>>The practice of yoga will not confine you to some inferior stage of life
>>or spiritual growth.  I see in this seven-level idea of Da a ranking on
>>the teachings of Yoga which reveals is lack of knowledge IMHO.
>
>It depends on what you mean by yoga. The normal yogic techniques, including
>the various forms of aceticism, are practices that are done on the body
>and/or the mind. Since the starting point is the body-mind, the realization
>obtained must necessarily be conditioned upon the body-mind.
>
>Da Avabhasa elaborations of the seventh stages of life is never meant to be
>used as a grading system. His purpose is to point out that all these
>realizations are within the possibility of the exoteric and esoteric
>structures that we are born with. The rising of mystical experiences etc are
>not more significant than the rising of thoughts or emotions, and they are
>equally deluding. The purpose of "The Basket Of Tolerance" is to educate and
>inform us of these matters so that we will not be bound by them if they were
>to arise.
>
>>Forget about the "stages of life", the Self is the only Reality.
>
>Have you tried? I suggest that you are not more capable of forgetting about
>money, food and sex than forgetting about anything else. It is one thing to
>affirm "the Self is the only Reality", you can turn it in your mind till the
>end of time and it will never become true Realization. The spiritual process
>is something else totally. It is an ordeal that will break your heart, your
>mind and your ego. It is not something that an ego can do by itself.

Mr. Da is so completely dualistic to be totally blind. All spiritual
processes are part of the ego, and can only lead to continuation of such.
especially if it is an ordeal. You can break your heart, but that which
is broken will be reconstructed. Insight is differnt, but Mr. Da does
not seem to have any inkling about it.(at least not in these postings)

S. Kumar

>
>Yee.