Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!olivea!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!zahle.wpi.edu!shari From: uunet!plains!tera.cs.umn.edu!cosar@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Ahmet Cosar) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: One Man = Two Women <===> Equality ??? How come! Message-ID: <1991Jun25.131903.28707@wpi.WPI.EDU> Date: 25 Jun 91 13:19:03 GMT References: <1991Jun23.234331.28116@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1991Jun24.160952.8483@wpi.WPI.EDU> Sender: news@wpi.WPI.EDU (News) Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis - CSCI Dept. Lines: 99 Approved: shari@zahle.wpi.edu Originator: shari@zahle.wpi.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: zahle.wpi.edu Hello, In article <1991Jun24.160952.8483@wpi.WPI.EDU> rached@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes: > >First let me clarify something to you and other fellownetters: >Men and Women will never be absolutely equal, they are different men are ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ >men and women are women. Women give birth to children men (even if they I agree that women and men are `different', the point is that whether we agree that they are `equal' as well. I consider the fact that women are capable of bringing new humans to life as a `plus' not something which is exploited to forbid some other social roles to women. >Allah knows best what are the rights that should be given to both. So ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >from this argument every muslim once provided with an evidence from the >Quran (the Holy book revealed by Allah through his Angel (Gabriel) on >the prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him) or from the sayings of the >prophet Peace be upon him, about a right for either men or women must >obey that without any discussion. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the point that each religion always includes to rule out any criticism, possible updates and changes in accordance with the modern world. Therefore I believe what we need is a religious move like the `protestants' of Christianity which will act to evolve Islam to fit the current world and needs of Muslims. There may be no harm in applying the rules related to personal religious duties of Muslims, however when the subject is to use it on daily life I cannot accept to "obey that without discussion". Just give everybody a copy of Qur'an and an interpretation prepared by the `ulema', it is done. >This is the general rule, now a muslim is not prohibited to think about >what Allah has ordered and try to conclude the wisdom behind it, if he >can find some then it is good otherwise that does not mean that the >wisdom does not exist but it means that the human level is not yet >developped to recognize or identify that wisdom. This is a very ambiguous ruling which leaves Qur'an open to any possible interpretation as seen fit by people who claims to have authority in religious jurisdiction, `ulema'. I know that they are educated in religious Universities, have similar procedures such as earning PhD, tenure, Professorship, etc., but I also know how much personal relations and politics are involved with decisions in such organizations. >In matters that need the special skills of a person, the testimony of a >woman may be more strong than that of a man like in things that are >related to women issues. It is narrated that when Khalif Omar (May Allah ^^^^^^^^^^^ This is not relevant, what counts is the Qur'an. Omar was the 'Khalif' so he had the `power' to make such a decision. What will I say if someone says "look this is what is written in Qur'an", will they accept Khalif Omar as a higher authority? >As for that the testimony of two women equals that of one man, this has >been mentioned in the Quran only in reference to the monetary dealings >(as I remember for witnesses on debts between muslims), some of the >Ulama (Knowlegeable people in matters of Religion) generalized this to >all matters of testimony, others restricted it to that situation only >and said that in other matters the testimony of a man is equal to that >of a woman. So depending on the Ulama you follow you have different ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >opinions. This is not a contradiction in Islam since some of the matters ^^^^^^^^ This is exactly the reason I am not so sure about how `fair' the application of Islamic law can be. The people that are brought to the position of `ulema', and ordinary people have no saying on it, are in no way guranteed to be good people, are they? What if the Islamic rules are maliciously used by `ulema', who can easily obtain majority through personal relations and due to the fact that they are not elected by people and cannot be changed by people. >3. Show you that Islam Liberated the woman, not disorderly but in a way ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >that fits her design; and did the same thing for man. It may be considered as a `liberation' for the year 1400, and for a society in which female children were buried alive. Now women want more. Shall we say "this is what was given to you, ask no more"? >rached Finally I would like to state that I have all the respect for all religions and Qur'an, however I am not so sure how we can gurantee that the Islamic rulers won't maliciously use Qur'an to strengthen their chairs. Olleh, A.Coras ________________________________________________________________________ Disc space -- the final frontier! ________________________________________________________________________