Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!navas From: navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David C. Navas) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Subject: Re: CDTV News Summary: MARC, GET A CLUE! Message-ID: <14351@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 1 Jul 91 01:45:14 GMT References: <13636@uwm.edu> <1991Jun30.205817.4347@news.iastate.edu> <1991Jun30.223505.16971@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <1991Jun30.232109.6446@news.iastate.edu> Sender: news@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: navas@cory.Berkeley.EDU Lines: 130 I imagine I won't be the only one responding to this, oh well. In article <1991Jun30.232109.6446@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Barrett Marc N) writes: >In article <1991Jun30.223505.16971@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: >> Marc, what do you want from Commodore? > > OK, I'll tell you exactly what I want from Commodore. I want a new >32-bit chipset that is powerful enough to justify the more than 7-year >gap between it's introduction and the introduction of the original chipset. Gee, that sounds reasonable. So would I. Sounds good so far. >This new chipset must have enough overall capability to allow a new CDTV >system using it to emulate CD-I. Yep, it sure should. OR Cmdre should have a hardware addon specific to CDTV that does the same thing. Makes total sense, yep. > As for features, I want an expanded Copper (more instructions and >flexibility), multiple blitters (at least four, preferably more), a Why? Lessee, I could understand adding arbitrary rotate/scale tech. to sprites (ala LYNX), and maybe some pixmap modes to Denise, but the Copper? FOUR blitters? What's the point? Only one can be on the bus at a time. It would be nice if it could automatically read its instructions off a cache memory so that Blitter set up times were minimized, maybe.... >24-bit palette, and the ability to display 24-bit color at a resolution >of 640x400. All existing resolution modes should have expanded color >capabilities, including the SuperHiRes and Productivity modes. Okay, reality time here. To stay within even *available* RAM access times, we'd have to have a very complicated pipe scheme and some heavy duty cache, OR we'd need a 64 bit chipset to get what you want. Do the math Marc, it's simple, really. Remember with all this Copper magic, VRAM is not a real option. > I want a 24-bit chipset that can animate (with multiple blitters). Okay, so you're going to pay for it, right? > In order for it to be used in a new CDTV, it had better be cheap. Okay, so you aren't to pay for it.... >>Do you want DIG >>with high end RISC boards? > No I don't. For now, I am more concerned with the low-end. I don't ...and you don't want anyone else to pay for it. In addition you will trust Cmdre to come up with a solution to suit everyone, so DIG is completely out of the question? Read the summary --- GET A CLUE! >Commodore has to get a decent chipset into that thing as soon as possible, >so that Commodore can make the CDTV fully compatible with CD-I. I also They don't have to make the chipset better for that, they need something specifically for the CDTV. Who cares what *that* looks like, as long as it's cheap and good enough for TV. We are talking about NTSC, right? Never Twice the Same Color? >want the A500 to finally get improved capabilities as well, using the >same improved chipset that should go into CDTV. Did you realize that >there are now dedicated game machines with color capabilities better than >the CDTV, A500, and A3000? Yes, I do. Funny how either they all run DOS, or they're out of my price range. Color does NOT make the machine. It didn't make it when the Amiga came out, and it won't make a big diff. now. I *do* agree with you that we need a better chipset. Cmdre has already all but said they're creating one. Neither of us works for Cmdre. Figure it out. >like there being dedicated game systems with color capabilities vastly >better than the A500 and CDTV. Both systems need a new chipset FAST. Quick: why fast? >> A few days ago you say "C= needs a new 8bit chipset for A500 >>machines." Now you're saying 24bit. You are not going to sell >>a machine with built in 24bits per pixel graphics for under $500. > > I changed my mind about 8-bit color after I realized that there are >already dedicated game systems with 15-bits of color. If any new chipsets >are limited to 8-bits of color, I will never forgive Commodore for it, >because 8-bit color is already fast becoming history. You seem to change your mind all the time. As long as that's the case, mind being brainwashed? You ever seen a Personal IRIS? You know, 24 bits color, z-buffer, gouraud shading and hardware lighting? I have. I've programmed it to animate, mind if I tell you what I found? We got the IRIS to do about 150 gouraud shaded polygon fills about five frames a second. [It was an older model] Does that meet your specs? It doesn't seem to. That machine is *already* a "hack" and costs about $20,000. Like dude, get a clue. While color wasn't hot, it was easy to be competitive. Color was NOT hot in the PC world about '85, does it come as any surprise that a computer could compete? Interestingly, it was the Amiga rather than the Mindset that made it. Now everyone and their dog is doing color. We need to be *adequate* and find an area which no on else is competing in. Personally, I dream Cmdre surprises us all, develops their own 35ns RAM, a 64bit chipset, and their own RISC processor that does realtime phong shading with BSPtree shadowing algorithms, and B-spline animation. But see, I wake up in the morning. And the question is: Do you? David Navas navas@cory.berkeley.edu 2.0 :: "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Also try c186br@holden, c260-ay@ara and c184-ap@torus