Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!mintaka!geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu!rjc From: rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: Amiga is better then what??? Message-ID: <1991Jun27.211005.9179@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: 27 Jun 91 21:10:05 GMT References: <1991Jun26.192356.26253@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <1991Jun27.184631.2685@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <1991Jun27.200127.23004@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> Sender: news@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu Organization: The Internet Lines: 93 In article <1991Jun27.200127.23004@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes: >rjc@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell) writes: > >I was alluding to the fact that there is no real gfx standard for >the Amiga right now. Much like the situation in the PC world. I think >having a general scheme for implementing graphic card drivers is a >definitive plus for an OS - the ST's VDI allows just this. They are working on device independent graphics right, the problem is, keeping rhe Amiga the leading desktop video computer without damaging it's performance. (DIG is always slower than hitting the hardware directly) We also have problems to worry about like programmable scan rates, beam synchronization, sprites,multiple play fields, genlocking ,etc Do many ST apps use VDI? I heard they hit the system a little more directly. If they don't, I'm surprised the ST doesn't have lots of graphic cards (and sooner). The main reason the Amiga didn't get them until recently was lack of a graphics standard for external cards. >> And the ST doesn't gain much from running at a _slightly_ faster >>processor speed. > >I didn't claim that. But remember that it's not only the 10% clock >difference that makes CPU-intensive jobs on the Amiga slower. You must >take the video hardware into account which costs additional cycles. Not really that slower. 10% of .7? MIPS isn't much. The Amiga isn't slowed down by the video hardware except by the megacolor screens (half brite, ham, or the hires 16 color screens) and this only happened if the user has no extra ram (fast ram). >> Intuition is the GUI, workbench is the file/finder system (e.g. like >>Finder on the Mac). I never used workbench before 2.0, but I haven't seen >>many Atari users who used GEM either. GEM doesn't look too hot on that >>lo-res screen. > >Who uses lo-res? Gamesters - but not me. Don't you need 2 monitors for the ST? One lo-res color and one mono? >> The new HD drive on the A3000 has 3 modes. 880k, 1.44mb, and 1.76mb. >>1.44mb mode was the main reason for making it. You can also buy >>$200 SCSI floppy drives. > >Does it format standard MFM format so that every PC can read it? The Amiga's filesystem isn't at like the ST/IBM PC format. But filesystems are only the higher level organization of data. The Amiga (and it's new HD drive) can write MFM tracks out exactly like 720k/1.44mb IBM disks, or 880k/1.72mb Amiga disks. For instance, on my Amiga, I merely mount an MS-DOS filesystem and I can read/write IBM disks from any application as if ithere was nothing different. >>(A2024) 1024x1024 PAL on the Amiga without a graphic card, just need a nice >>monitor. (The 1024x1024 also has 4 grey colors for the 3d GUI look) > >From what I've heard, the 2024 is a monitor with special hardware >integrated in it that buffers screen frames and displays them at >quadruple the speed the Amiga sends it. This way, the Amiga sends >a forth of the whole screen in every screen frame, and the monitor >composes the complete picture. This means you have a real refresh rate >of 50Hz/4 or 60Hz/4. Not exactly what I would call "without a >graphic card". Well, you don't need any internal hardware to use it. You just buy a $499 monitor. The refresh rate is 15hz, yes, but it's not bad. The monitor is meant for publishing/cad/text applications, not animation. The Amiga can send out one 768x240x4 screen every 60th of a second (or 768x480x4 interlaced at 30hz) This is 92,160 bytes of data. A 1024x1024x2 (or 1008x800x2) is about ~200,000 bytes. So it takes ~3.2 frames to transfer a screen to the A2024. I guess C= rounds it up to 4 so the A2024 updates at 15hz. >>With Commodore's A2410 you get up to 1024x1024 with 256 colors out of >>16.7 million. > >Is it available? I hear its finished, but won't be released until AmigaUNIX v2.0 with X11R4 is finished. That way, the 3000UX can run a nice megapixel /mega color Xwindows. (the A2410 has a 34010 processor onboard) >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. >D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein) >csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de >Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de >---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- / INET:rjc@gnu.ai.mit.edu * // The opinions expressed here do not \ | INET:r_cromwe@upr2.clu.net | \X/ in any way reflect the views of my self.| \ UUCP:uunet!tnc!m0023 * /