Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!uunet!lll-winken!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!tridom!atssc!fang!att!att!cbnews!cbnews!military From: bxr307@csc1.anu.edu.au Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Women in combat MOS's Message-ID: <1991Jun27.022228.5639@cbnews.cb.att.com> Date: 27 Jun 91 02:22:28 GMT References: <1991Jun25.025044.28238@cbnews.cb.att.com> Sender: military@cbnews.cb.att.com (william.a.thacker) Organization: Computer Services, Australian National University Lines: 73 Approved: military@att.att.com From: bxr307@csc1.anu.edu.au In article <1991Jun25.025044.28238@cbnews.cb.att.com>, military@cbnews writes: > > > From: sun!pro-amber.cts.com!rsopicki (System Administrator) > In-Reply-To: message from soper@BRL.MIL > > Finally someone who makes sense in this issue. I agree with the Sarge 100%. > I spent 21 years in the Navy and I can see no place for women on Naval > combatants. When the stuff hits the fan I always wanted someone with me > that I could count on to help me force a jammed hatch, pull wounded away > from an accident or hit. I just don't think women can fill that billet. As a counter example. I spent ten years in the Australian Army in unit which due to circumstance varied from between 33% to 50% females at various times. Both in the field on exercises, and in barracks, the females were as good as their male counterparts at being soldiers. They usually knew their trade as well as the males and were, in some cases, able to outperform the males. It was, I admit a supply unit, not a combat unit, however as the Oz Army practices the concept of all arms defence, a soldier serving in a supply unit has to be nearly as proficient in infantry tasks as they do in their technical trade the distinction has become rather blurred. The only problems they had were that they were physically weaker (which is understandable as little effort had gone into specialised physical fitness programs for them) and unable to lift as heavier weights as the males. However their enthusiasm for what they were doing was usually much greater and they also tended to be better educated. Most importantly they knew the problems and they at least tried to overcome them, rather than sitting on their arse and whingeing about them. The Australian military has generally been openned up to females with regards to what positions they can fill. In the airforce they are undergoing flight training for everything except fighters at the moment. In the Navy while they are not intended to serve on combatants, because of the nature of their roles that distinction has gone by the wayside. In fact on the HMAS Westralia, the second supply ship which served in the Gulf were the first members of the WRAN to ever officially serve in a combat zone. In the army nearly all positions, except infantry, armour, and artillery are now open to females. *Climbs on soapbox* As I said in my last post on the topic, don't allow sexism to blind you to what females can, or cannot do. There is no reason to believe they cannot function as well as males in any role, no matter what. If they can reach the physical standards necessary, then there is no reason why they cannot fufill that role. By denying them the right to even at least attempt to try for those positions you are simply saying they are not the equal of men, and they should be home being baby factories and cooking meals (read: "Barefoot and Pregnant, chained to a sink/stone"). I would have thought that in the thirty years since feminism appeared on the scene more people would be a little more receptive to what has been said over the years about what it represents. If women want to be able to explore all the possibilities of what equality means, and that includes serving in a combat role in the military, then good on them. I will, based on past experience, give'em a go at least. If they can perform then they can stay. If they cannot perform then, just as with any male who cannot perform, they go. *Climbs off soapbos* Just my two cents worth, thats all. :-) -- Brian Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If we got it so wrong in the Middle East yesterday, what makes you think we are going to get it right this time?" Arthur Schlesinger --------------------------------------------------------------------------