Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!aero-c!nadel From: oneil@zeus.unomaha.edu Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: Women and Career Message-ID: <16961.28692a4a@zeus.unomaha.edu> Date: 27 Jun 91 05:59:05 GMT References: <143634@unix.cis.pitt.edu> Sender: news@aero.org Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA Lines: 73 Approved: nadel@aerospace.aero.org Originator: nadel@aerospace.aero.org In article <143634@unix.cis.pitt.edu>, bcwst@unix.cis.pitt.EDU ("Bruce C. Wible") writes: > Another thing is why do women have to behave in a absolutely Positivly > Woman (Traditional type Makeup, act Dumb et al) or the other side of > them like Morden so called Libbers (Don't shave Legs, Dont use perfume > kind) Why can't there be more of Natural woman who know that men know > they need us as much as we need them and there is no need to act > highty and mighty or even dumb (which they ar'n't) I mean spare the > artificialities, do they actually need them?? I assume that since you have an educational account, that you exist in a "university" atmosphere. Even here in Nebraska, the university tends to be an artificially extreme atmosphere. Actually, I think that there are a lot of women who are "natural." I consider myself one of them. Now, to be very truthful, I might be considered a "libber" because I am a feminist, but I do hold men in high regard. I don't feel compelled to shave my legs or wear makeup. I shave my legs because /I/ want to -- my boyfriend has indicated to me that he wouldn't mind if I chose not to and in fact, I believe he prefers me unshaven. I also wear makeup because /I/ want to -- very often, my boyfriend asks me why I even bother with the stuff. The point is: I am a feminist because I do believe that woman have been treated unfairly in society and in the workplace. I am also an individual who makes up her own mind on how I choose to present myself in appearance. To me -- this is natural. I respect men and I certainly don't denigrate them. I will point out injustices when I see them or experience them, but I don't feel that I bash men in the least. One problem I do see with what you have written is that women don't necessarily need men just as much as men need them -- I have many lesbian friends who feel no need for men either socially or emotionally and I respect their lifestyles. By the same token, I am sure that there are gay men who feel the same way. (For the most part, my gay and lesbian friends do have friends of the opposite sex, however.) I think that we need to keep this in mind. > Lastly Is it true that most (I am not genralising) Woman who try and > achieve a name for themselves do it > 1)Out of running of the so called Drudgery of family life > 2)Out of a Bad experience in their life > 3)Out of basic interest in the field they have chosen I seek to succeed both professionally and have a good family life. I do not plan to sacrifice my childen to a career, however. Nor will I put up with an employer who seeks to hold me back professionally just because I plan to eventually have a family. To answer your question more directly -- I think that a lot of women who seek to achieve a name for themselves do this for a lot of reasons. Some women /do/ want to escape the drudgery of family life. Some women do get bored after they've packed the husband and kids off to school. Being a housewife is certainly not a demeaning profession, but I think that for a lot of women it just lacks an intellectual challenge. I'm sure that there are women who seek to succeed because of a Bad Experience. I'm not sure what you mean by a Bad Experience, but I certainly think that some women have been treated poorly and do wish to prove themselves to the world. But I'm sure that this happens to men as well. A lot of people want to prove themselves. This is a basic motivation. Interest in a field is also extremely motivating. I know that I became interested in the field I'm entering -- education -- when I was young. I've always found learning and how learning takes place to be very fascinating and I'm sure that I will continue my studies in this area. Is this not a motivating factor for men as well? -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sharon Lindsey O'Neil "I could be happy/I could be quite naive/ Bitnet: oneil@unomai1 It's only me and my shadow/Happy in our Internet: oneil@zeus.unomaha.edu make believe/Soon." -- Tears for Fears ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~