Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!uunet!bellcore!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bcsaic!carroll@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Carroll) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Why I am not a Methodist (was: Re: A pastoral letter to the members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Message-ID: Date: 27 Jun 91 07:10:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle Lines: 185 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article tblake@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu (Thomas Blake) writes: >In article ssc-bee!ssc-vax!carroll@cs.washington.edu (Jeff Carroll) writes: >> On the other hand, my experiences as a United Methodist were >>entirely different. Nearly all the Bible study I participated in there >>was pretty juvenile, centering on personal feelings and reactions rather >>than the Scriptures themselves. >Yeah, generalizations are *very* easy to make, and not a good idea at >all. We all know that the beliefs and practices of different religions >vary widely. Differences can be easily found between the denominations >of Christianity, and also between different congregations in a single >denomination. I'll admit to some residual resentment toward the UMC, but it was mot my intent to single them out here. I believe that most liberal Protestants don't take Bible study seriously as study. David seemed to be saying either that liberal Biblical interpretation had become too difficult for the layman, or that liberal Protestants don't think that the Bible is important enough to study any more. I think both are true to some extent; it's easy for members of churches embracing liberal scholarship to neglect their intellectual responsibility to properly understand Scripture. >One of my pastoral friends is currently researching a paper she is >writing on the differences of belief between members of the same >congregation. She finds that they can vary widely, even their feelings >on the fact that other members of the church believe differently than >they do. While one rejoices in diversity of belief, another believes >that they must search for a congregation where everyone agrees on what >this particular Christian knows to be "the truth". I didn't want to leave the United Methodist Church when I did. I did and still do consider myself a Wesleyan in many ways. But it seemed to me that "rejoicing in diversity of belief" had reached the point of idolatry in the UMC. The United Methodist Church teaches no doctrine to speak of, considering social activism and its own political process far more important than such things. The curious will discover the traditional doctrines of Methodism and Anglicanism in the first few pages of the Discipline, just before the Statement of Social Principles and the Constitution of the church. But the curious Methodist would be hard-pressed to find anything that could be called "teaching" going on in the average United Methodist Church. The pulpits are used primarily for political advocacy, and the adult Sunday Schools are largely exercises in the blind leading the blind. The bottom line is that you can believe whatever you want in the United Methodist Church; the more outrageous, the better. It need not necessarily involve Jesus Christ at all, although that would be nice. Each Sunday you will be asked to mouth a "creed" and/or "congregational prayers" consisting of some anonymous author's (the pastor's?) personal point of view, and every Sunday it will be different; apparently innovation for innovation's own sake. The new United Methodist hymnal includes Duke Ellington's "Come Sunday", for no good reason that I could discern. For the last few years I was a Methodist, I was so angered by the meaninglessness of Methodist worship that I couldn't bring myself to attend services any more. I have belonged to several United Methodist congregations, large and small, urban and rural. I have been a member of Annual Conference, have served on a number of conference- and district-level bodies, and was selected a youth delegate to the 1976 General Conference in Portland. I met Jesus Christ as a United Methodist, and some of my best friends and closest relatives are still in the church. For a while I thought I was being called to the United Methodist ministry. But I ultimately could not bring myself to stay in the fellowship of a group that accepts so uncritically both the good and the bad, the uplifting and the disruptive in the spiritual realm while being so preoccupied with political correctness. >Back in the early 80's I was invloved in a cast of Godspell that went >about performing in churches in upstate New York (mostly Roman Catholic >churches). While one church insisted that we perform in a social hall, >(which had no stage), another church insisted that we perform in the >sanctuary. Still another church had us perform in the sanctuary, but >took great pains to (pardon my lack of correct terminology) remove "the >host" from the box up front, and leave the door open so that all could >see that "the host" was absent. Apparently such distinctions mean nothing to you. To me they are quite important. While I was still a Methodist I felt a great spiritual void that remained unfilled by anything my church had to offer. I sought this fulfillment continually in the avenues provided by the congregation to which I belonged, although I couldn't bring myself to participate in the intellectual dishonesty that they called "worship". Then one Sunday evening our Methodist young adult group (which was rapidly losing membership to the Presbyterian church up the street served by the well-known author/pastor Bruce Larson) visited the local Episcopalian cathedral for the weekly 9:30 PM sung Compline. Suddenly I found myself in the midst of what I had been missing all these years - authentic worship of the almighty God, and His Son Jesus Christ. I started going to the Episcopal church up the street on Sunday mornings, and met my friends at the Methodist coffee hour for our customary lunch. Many churches which would like to host such a theatrical production as the one you participated in have no other suitable facility than the chancel of their church. Where veneration of the Sacrament is practiced, this necessitates its removal from the premises so that people don't genuflect to what is in essence a stage. This is quite a serious matter for us Episcopalians, for example, and your casual treatment of it hints of disrespect. >Three or four years later, I again toured with Godspell, (put on by the >same organization), we revisited a number of the churches. In many >cases, the individual congregations reversed their stand on where the >show should appropriately be performed. (In most cases they moved us >from a social hall to the sanctuary.) As is their right; were such a thing to happen at my church (as it sometimes does), I would be rather bitterly opposed to it. >These differences didn't surprise me much. I was raised in one church >of a two-point charge, (two congregations served by the same pastor). >And I had observed how different our two congregations were, (and yet how >similar). The two churches had families that changed membership back >and forth, (obviously not because of the pastor). My experience is that United Methodist worship is pretty much the same wherever you go, which is not to say that it adheres to the standard order of worship rather cynically included in the hymnal. >My congregation might be considered liberal. Travel less than 3 miles >and you'll find another UMC congregation that is more conservative. >Travel 5 in a different direction and you'll find one which is still >more conservative. Travel 10 miles, and you'll find a number which are >more liberal. The demographics do vary, usually from urban to rural, and with respect to the social and economic milieu in which the individual church is located. However I don't quite understand what there is for the typical United Methodist congregation to be conservative or liberal about, compared to the issues being dealt with by other denominations. Maybe it's the amount of discomfort caused by the preaching. >One man who has been worshipping with us lately told me how much more >accepting our congregation was. He had come from a small Lutheran >congregation who he said "wouldn't even worship with the other Lutheran >congregation down the road." From this I wouldn't draw the conclusion >that UMC congregations are more accepting than Lutheran congregations, >only that our particular congregation was perceived by him to be more >accepting than another congregation which happened to be Lutheran. Well, we all know which Lutheran group that was, don't we? :^) I *would* assert that United Methodist congregations are "more accepting than Lutheran congregations; but being "accepting" is not necessarily a virtue in my book, nor in that of the Lutherans. >My present pastor has two masters degrees, and is working on her >dissertation. Her Bible studies appear in our conference newsletter, >and might be called "challenging" or "scholarly", but certainly not >"juvenile". I don't conclude from this that all UMC pastors are highly >educated biblical scholars. I'm not saying that Methodist clergy isn't well educated. Some is *too* well educated. I am saying that Methodists (as perhaps some others) are conditioned by the vapidness of their worship to exchange platitudes and warm fuzzies while ostensibly trying to study the Bible. >What much of it comes down to in my view, is not the denomination, but >the people involved. This is why I get frustrated when someone makes a >sweeping generalization about a denomination based upon their experiences >with a very small minority of that denomination. As I tried to explain above, I woudn't describe my experience as a United Methodist as based on a small minority. I have belonged to four or five different UM congregations, have visited dozens more, and have done so in three different (and geographically widely separated) Annual Conferences. I was a United Methodist for fifteen years. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on your experience as a United Methodist. If the United Methodist Church brings you closer to Jesus Christ, praise God. It certainly became an impediment to me. > > Tom Blake > SUNY-Binghamton > Christian First > United Methodist Second