Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!usc!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!shari From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: One Man = Two Women <===> Equality ??? How come! Message-ID: <1991Jun27.134332.26319@wpi.WPI.EDU> Date: 27 Jun 91 13:43:32 GMT References: <1991Jun23.234331.28116@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1991Jun24.160952.8483@wpi.WPI.EDU> <1991Jun25.131903.28707@wpi.WPI.EDU> Sender: shari@wpi.WPI.EDU (Shari Deiana VanderSpek) Organization: Vienna University of Technology Lines: 93 Approved: shari@zahle.wpi.edu In article <1991Jun25.131903.28707@wpi.WPI.EDU> uunet!plains!tera.cs.umn.edu!cosar@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Ahmet Cosar) writes: Hello, In article <1991Jun24.160952.8483@wpi.WPI.EDU> rached@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes: [....] > >First let me clarify something to you and other fellownetters: >Men and Women will never be absolutely equal, they are different men are ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ >men and women are women. Women give birth to children men (even if they I agree that women and men are `different', the point is that whether we agree that they are `equal' as well. I consider the fact that women are capable of bringing new humans to life as a `plus' not something which is exploited to forbid some other social roles to women. I can't understand how something which is different is also equal. Equalness and difference is smt. mutually exclusive. >Allah knows best what are the rights that should be given to both. So ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >from this argument every muslim once provided with an evidence from the >Quran (the Holy book revealed by Allah through his Angel (Gabriel) on >the prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him) or from the sayings of the >prophet Peace be upon him, about a right for either men or women must >obey that without any discussion. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is the point that each religion always includes to rule out any criticism, possible updates and changes in accordance with the modern world. Therefore I believe what we need is a religious move like the `protestants' of Christianity which will act to evolve Islam to fit the current world and needs of Muslims. There may be no harm in applying the rules related to personal religious ^^^^^^ duties of Muslims, however when the subject is to use it on daily life I cannot accept to "obey that without discussion". Just give everybody a copy of Qur'an and an interpretation prepared by the `ulema', it is done. If you think that what you are saying is Islam, we come to the same point you are complaining about (ulema <-> Islam). If one is not willing to accept that 1) God is free of his creation, i.e. he is not a function of space and time, 2) God wants the good of mankind. He has not sent Islam to make man confuse, and 3) Because of (1), he knows everything and because of (2) it is for the good for humans. Of course, to question the ulema driven system is right, as 13 centuries of the 14 centuries which have passed since the prophet started to preach have mostly not been ruled as it has to be. The padisah was afraid of his brothers, so he got a Fetwa and let them be executed- in the case of Mehmed III, 18 were killed, although some of them were babies or small children!! Just to cite an exemple... >This is the general rule, now a muslim is not prohibited to think about >what Allah has ordered and try to conclude the wisdom behind it, if he >can find some then it is good otherwise that does not mean that the >wisdom does not exist but it means that the human level is not yet >developped to recognize or identify that wisdom. This is a very ambiguous ruling which leaves Qur'an open to any possible interpretation as seen fit by people who claims to have authority in religious jurisdiction, `ulema'. I know that they are educated in religious Universities, have similar procedures such as earning PhD, tenure, Professorship, etc., but I also know how much personal relations and politics are involved with decisions in such organizations. It is time to learn from history. To implement a similar system will not work again. But as there are no divine rules how to reign, why not thinking on a better system? For example, a shura of 1000 ulema can find a less politically influenced Fetwa on subjects IF they are coming from all muslim countries, are elected by the citizens of these countries and can't be a member of any political institutions ten years before and ten years after being member of the shura. Their ulema-PhD will show that they have knowledge (that they are scientists) and their juristical file will show whether or not they have obeyed the divine law. The shura will have the right to say that a law, submitted by the parliament, is islamic or not. It will not have the power to change the law... >rached Finally I would like to state that I have all the respect for all religions and Qur'an, however I am not so sure how we can gurantee that the Islamic rulers won't maliciously use Qur'an to strengthen their chairs. I congratulate you, brother!