From: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers Newsgroups: fa.sf-lovers Title: SF-LOVERS Digest Volume 6, Issue 58 Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8758 Posted: Tue Oct 12 02:32:28 1982 Received: Sun Oct 17 03:15:27 1982 >From SFL@SRI-CSL Mon Oct 11 20:55:03 1982 SF-LOVERS Digest 11-Oct-82 Volume 6 : Issue 58 Today's Topics: Dune declining, SF cons list update, ET, Piers Anthony, Bradbury Brunner, Jedi trailer, MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS query, sequel failures, AI in SF query, Bradley's HAWKMISTRESS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Sep 1982 0003-PDT From: Zellich at OFFICE-3 (Rich Zellich) Subject: SF Cons listing updated To: Cons-List update notice list: cc: SF-Lovers-Request at SRI-CSL OFFICE-3 file CONS.TXT has been updated and is now ready for FTP. OFFICE-3 supports the net-standard "ANONYMOUS" Login within FTP, using any password. CONS.TXT is currently 1088 lines (or 53,175 characters). Please try to limit your FTP jobs to before 0600-CDT and after 1600-CDT if possible, as the system is heavily loaded during the day. Enjoy, Rich ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 1982 1709-EDT From: YOUNG at DEC-MARLBORO To: SF-Lovers at MIT-AI Subject: [DD-B : SF Lovers submission] - - - - - - - Begin message from: DD-B Date: 15 September 1982 10:45-EDT (Wednesday) To: Young at Market From: DD-B Reply-to: DYER-BENNET AT KL2137 DTN: 231-4076 LOC/MS: MRO1-2/L14 Subject: SF Lovers submission ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #44 ) (Dolata at SUMEX-AIM) Medics 'last gasp' efforts: given the postulated state of almost complete ignorance, how can you be sure that the alien is really about to die? If you don't know that the alien is about to die, how can you justify taking drastic actions with no information to guide them? And, of course, how can you justify ignoring the reactions of the person (even if only a kid) who knows most about the alien? ( Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #45 ) (Gene Spafford ) Interesting thoughts on our heroes. For some gentler SF, I'd recommend looking into Piers Anthony's Xanth series (4 books currently?). There's a lot of conflict, but the main character seems to me to strive consistently to minimize it. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Sep 82 11:28:04-EDT (Thu) From: David Axler To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl Subject: Science Fiction & Opera Bradbury's planned "Moby Dick in Space" (c.f. SFL 6:48) won't be the first sf opera (even if one ignores all the fantasy elements found in many operatic plots). Earlier this century, "Aniara" was written by (*I think*) Harry Martinsson, a Swedish author & composer. I don't recall whether the book came before or after the opera, but the story is about the trials and tribulations of the denizens of a "generation starship." I believe that both book and recordings are still in print. The opera itself is quite interesting, as it's laden with "spacy" instruments like theremins and ondes martinot. I don't believe it's been performed in the States in quite some time -- an interesting project for some truly enterprising Con Committee! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Oct 1982 1124-PDT Sender: BILLW at SRI-KL Subject: The Sheep Look Up From: William "Chops" Westfield To: SFL at SRI-KL(Attn: sf-lovers) Cc: oster at WHARTON-10 Message-ID: <[SRI-KL]11-Oct-82 11:24:06.BILLW> Although the author, style, and tone of "The Sheep Look Up" are all quite similar to "Stand on Zanzibar", it is in no way a sequel! None of the characters are common, and the basic assumptions (Pollution vs Over-population) are different. WW ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 1982 1712-EDT From: Alyson L. Abramowitz To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL Subject: Contributions From ENet SF-LOVERS From: MERLIN::WAJENBERG 15-SEP-1982 15:37 To: KIRK::SF_LOVERS Subj: Declining quality of DUNE books Someone recentlyasked why the first DUNE book was so much better than the others. The person who said it was because Campbell was a hidden co-author has a great deal of truth on its side. But there is another reason. DUNE (the first book) holds rigidly to the Heroic Cycle as described by Lord Raglan, a British anthropologist. Ragaln lays out 22 events which an ideal hero goes through. No real hero of myth or legend scores all 22, but many get the vast majority. Paul Muad'Dib gets about 20 of the 22. Unfortunately, he gets almost all of them in the first book. Only two or three are left for DUNE MESSIAH, and CHILDREN OF DUNE and GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE are beyond the cycle completely. I don't claim the cycle is magical, but it HAS managed to attract a good deal of human interest, in all cultures, for as long as we have record. Anyway, it gave Herbert a ready-made plot. Once that plot gave out, so did the DUNE series. The things which happen to Paul Muad'Dib that occur in Raglan's heroic cycle are (as best memory serves): 1) The circumstances of his conception are unusual. (His mother conceived him male, when she could have conceived him female, and was so ordered.) 2) He was threatened in childhood. (Rather late childhood, but there it is.) 3) The person threatening was a relative of his mother's. 4) He eluded the threat and lived in a far land for a long time. 5) We hear little of the time he lived in the far land. 6) When he came of age (learned to ride sandworms), he arose to claim his heritage. 7) He defeated a monster/tyrant (a Raglan hero can do either; Paul did both if you allow worm-riding to count). 8) He married the daughter of his predecessor (Princess Irulan). 9) He ruled peacefully for a while. 10) He passed laws. 11) He lost the favor the gods/the people. (People in Paul's case.) 12) He was dirven from the community. (Self-exile, but in accordance with old Fremen custom.) 13) He met a mysterious death. I may have forgotten some. If anyone is interested, I can relate the entire 22-point cycle, to the interested party alone, or to SFL generally. ------------------------------ Date: 19-Sep-82 7:52PM-EDT (Sun) From: Nathaniel Mishkin Subject: Revenge of the Jedi -- Trailer To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL I heard that the upcoming re-release of SW-TESB will contain an even longer trailer (~15mins) for SW-ROTJ. Apparently the SW people are not bothering to advertise either of the trailers (for SW-ANH or SW-TESB) figuring that its main attraction is going to be to SW freaks and they're gonna find out about it anyway. -- Nat ------------------------------ Date: 20 Sep 1982 0929-MDT From: Dudley Irish Subject: The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. To: sf-lovers at SRI-CSL Does anyone know where this title comes from originally. I have been told that it was used by Joni Mitchel(sp?) in a song and, of course, we all know it as the title to a book by Heinlien, but does it have a more noble past (if one could) that I don't know about? For the curious, it came up in a conversation at a party. Dudley Irish IRISH@UTAH-20 ------------------------------ Date: 20 Sep 82 17:11:03-EDT (Mon) From: David Axler To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl Subject: Sequel Failure An entry in a recent issue of SFL tried to answer M. Melkar's question as to why sequels are often less good than the initial books. Without knocking the answer propounded, I'd suggest that a major reason is that which Norman Spinrad has discussed at length in his column "Stayin' Alive," which appears in LOCUS (and, I've heard, will soon be turned into a book). Spinrad's thesis, essentially, is that the current state of the sf publishing industry (which differs in some ways from the "normal" publ. ind.) is pushing authors into writing novels which have the potential for extension via sequels, and that the necessity of creating such sequelae when one is (a) sick of the characters and/or (b) has said all one wanted to say with them is a problem that needs curing. He feels that all segments of the sf world (authors, readers, fans, publishers, agents, other media, &c.) are to blame for this, though in differing degrees; the basic agent of the trouble, though, is the need for the author to pay his or her bills. I know that some SFL readers are involved in the creation of sf in its many forms, and would be interested in hearing their opinions on Spinrad's theory (which I've severely compressed, though hopefully w/o misstatement). ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 11 October 1982 18:49-EDT Sender: AGRE at MIT-OZ From: AGRE at MIT-MC To: sf-lovers at MIT-OZ I have a question for the world of sf-lovers. What are the ten science fiction books that everybody who wants to understand artificial intelligence should read? Reply to me since I'm not an sf-lovers subscriber. Answers will go in the file OZ:SF.BOOKS for the curious. - phiL ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 82 1:14-PDT From: mclure at SRI-UNIX To: sf-lovers at Sri-Csl Subject: sf column n520 2046 18 Sep 82 BC-SCIFI-09-19 SCIENCE FICTION By Roland J. Green (c) 1982 Chicago Sun-Times (Field News Service) Marion Zimmer Bradley's ''Hawkmistress!'' (DAWNew American Library, $2.95 paperback) is her 16th novel set on the planet Darkover. Darkover, circled by four moons, rotates about a distant red sun. Settled by the survivors of a lost starship, it remained isolated for more than 2,000 years before the expanding Terran Empire rediscovered it. During that time the settlers adapted to their new homeworld's harshly chill climate and lack of metals. Sexual equality gave way to patriarchy, democracy to feudalism or monarchy, and science to the exploration of complex paranormal powers known as laran. Yet the Darkovans survived, developed their own unique culture, interbred with the alien chieri, and even survived the impact of contact with the Terrans. This description sounds like the ingredients for good straightforward space adventure with overtones of fantasy; indeed ''Darkover'' can be appreciated at that level. The description doesn't make clear another undeniable truth: ''Darkover'' is an authentic SF saga. For sheer skill in storytelling and wordbuilding, for wit, for strikingly intelligent development of the concept of telepathy, above all for continous concern for people, Bradley has put some more famous SF sagas in shade. ''Hawkmistress'' begins when 15-year-old Romilly MacAran is faces with an arranged marriage to a nobleman she finds utterly repulsive. Not only that, he will prevent her from using her rare form of laran, an ability to communicate with hawks and horses. Disguising herself as a boy, she flees her father's estate and promptly discovers that her new freedom is far from complete. She has exchanged old constraints for new ones. In the end, she becomes involved in a deadly civil war for the throne of the local kingdom, and finds love (or at least affection), some reconcilation with her family, and as much freedom as she now realizes she can reasonably expect. ''Hawkmistress'' lays out with exceptional clarity (although without undue preaching) the themes of choice and price, central to Bradley's work. The wise know that life is a series of choices, each with its price. You can't have everything. The foolish try to avoid the choices. The good are willing to pay the price of their choices themselves, the evil or lazy (who in Bradley's books seem to be roughly the same) try to fob off the price of their choices onto others. Bradley doubtless owes a good part of her popularity to her eloquent concern with the way men have of making women do the paying. Her sympathies, however, are too broad and her sense of the integrity of a story too well developed to justify pinning a ''feminist'' label on her. Like many other SF authors, Bradley greatly benefited from the collapse of the traditional 60,000-word limit for SF novels in the early '70s. Beginning with ''Heritage of Hastur'' (DAW, 1975), Bradley has moved from strength to strength. The Planet of the Bloody Sun has proven more than slightly addictive to many readers, who start off with one and shortly find themselves haunting the bookstores for more. This, of course, is the reward every saga creator dreams of; seldom has it gone to a worthier author. Acquiring all the books of a 16-volume sage is a daunting task. Keeping up with short science fiction and fantasy is becoming every bit as painful, with magazines constantly changing editors, owners, and distributors, and sometimes winking out of existence between one issue and the next. Three solid anthologies offer the SF reader short of time or money to chase down all the magazines a good notion where short science fiction is going, as well as a deal of fine reading. They are Terry Carr's ''Universe 12'' (Doubleday, $10.95), ''Best Science Fiction of the Year No. 12'' (TimescapePocket Books, $2.95 paperback) and Donald A. Wollheim's ''The 1982 Annual World's Best SF'' (DAWNew American Library, $2.95 paperback). ''Universe'' is an anthology of original and slightly experimental fiction; the two paperbacks hold well-chosen reprints, and can be particularly recommended for SF teachers. END nyt-09-18-82 2336edt ********** End of SF-LOVERS Digest ***********************