From: utzoo!decvax!decwrl!sun!megatest!fortune!hpda!hplabs!hao!menlo70!sytek!zehntel!tektronix!tekecs!randals
Newsgroups: net.religion
Title: Re: The REAL Biblical Controversy (name-that-religion part)
Article-I.D.: tekecs.700
Posted: Fri Mar 25 12:59:59 1983
Received: Mon Mar 28 01:29:37 1983
References: qubix.172

~~~ (quoted material) ~~~
	Regarding a religion which neither tolerates nor tries to convert:
	every religion is BY ITS NATURE opposed to every other religion. Simple
	logic: A says "A is the only way to God, and B is not." B says "A and B
	are ways to God." B accepts A which denies B. Either A is wrong or B is
	self-contradictory, and hence wrong. Either way, NOT(both are right).
	This also applies to humanism and Unitarian-Universalism.

					Yours for cleaner netting,
					Larry Bickford
					decvax!decwrl!qubix!lab
~~~ (end quoted material) ~~~

Interesting.  You blindingly make a number of conclusions at light-speed in
the middle of the paragraph, and hope to con us into a proof that is,
itself, not founded on facts.

I refer specifically to the one statement "Either A is wrong, or B is
self-contradictory, and hence wrong."  What rule in what rulebook says
that something that is self-contradictory is wrong?  Even so, what
rule in what rulebook says that any B such that "B accepts A which denies B"
is self-contradictory?  I assert that these items are UNJUSTIFIED OPINION,
and not FACT.  Your own preconceptions are distorting your observations.

That is why, in my original request, I said to "look hard".  It may take
some real thinking and observing out there to see what I am looking for.

For most of you (if not practically all), you will see the situation as
impossible and unsolvable.  Those few that can make it past that barrier
will discover something very fascinating about what I am asking.
Hint: to get there, you need to be willing to think the unthinkable,
as contradictory as that seems.

By the way, the individuals that have sent me info on a few specific religions
still haven't quite seen it.  I agree with Larry in that UU and humanism
are not the "religion" I am looking for.

In another net article, Don Winsor stated:

	"The basic principle of Unitarian Universalism is freedom of belief.
	U.U.'s are not expected to assent to any particular creed or statement
	of belief. Instead, they follow the principle that all persons have an
	obligation to seek and to follow truth as they understand it."

Now, doesn't that mean that UU people necessarily infer that anyone that
DOESN'T "seek and follow the truth as they understand it" is wrong,
and must be put up with or changed?

Sounds to me like UU is just another system for justifying who you are,
and invalidating others.  Not what I asked for, is it?

In another case, someone sent me a note on Theleism, and stated in 
the text:

	"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

	I belong to the religion known as Thelemism. We do not practice
	or believe in oppression of any religious group which does not
	believe in imposing its will on others. There are many paths; the
	only thing that can prove a path invalid is a belief in imposing
	one's will on others (for instance, sending people to jail for
	practicing birth control). This belief is shared by most of the
	neo-pagan groups (which we are not) that have sprung up in this
	country in the last few decades.

	Love is the law, love under will."

Now, look at that.  These people say it is wrong to "[impose] one's
will on others".  What if my will is that it is o.k. to impose one's
will on others?  Then, you would be imposing on me with your own
*different* will!  You would then either have to tolerate me, or
try to get me to see that I am doing wrong (by YOUR definition).
Sorry, not what I asked for again.

Oh well, keep looking.  Maybe you'll see it, and maybe you won't.

Randal L. ("(null)") Schwartz
Tektronix Engineering Computing Systems (the UNIX folks)
Wilsonville, Oregon, USA

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