From: utzoo!decvax!duke!unc!tim
Newsgroups: net.religion
Title: Re: Omnipotence and free will
Article-I.D.: unc.5030
Posted: Wed Apr 20 12:54:03 1983
Received: Fri Apr 22 05:28:08 1983
References: watmath.4943


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For reality to be deterministic I have stated that that implies that there
are rules which, given the current state of the system, specify the next
state of the system, and that the existence of free will is equivalent to the
non-existence of such rules.
Don replied that such rules must exist. They consist of the trivial rule:
"ask myself" (God that is).

I don't think "ask myself" qualifies as the current state of the system. It
seems to me that as God created the system, He is outside of it.

								Ralph.
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Wrongo, Ralph. If God intervenes in the sytem even once after its creation,
It is inside it. If, however, you are willing to grant that God *never*
intervenes in the system after its creation, therefore never allowing
any accurate predictions, then no such rule exists, and from our point
of view the system is not deterministic. (This is assuming that the
only possible rule is asking God, which has been shown by Heisenberg.)

I doubt that you're willing to accept this, since its corollary is that
the Bible is false, since it states that God does intervene and predict.
Therefore, you must accept determinism or revise your view of God.

Stop trying to reason to conclusions that you've already decided on.
That really makes me sick. You're not interested in solving questions,
only in justifying your prejudices. If incontrovertible logical argument
demonstrated your beliefs false (as it does), you'd still be frantically
struggling to prove to yourself that you were right all along.

Tim Maroney