From: utzoo!decvax!duke!unc!tim
Newsgroups: net.religion
Title: Re: Free will and predestination make no sense
Article-I.D.: unc.5056
Posted: Sat Apr 23 15:33:55 1983
Received: Sun Apr 24 07:46:17 1983
References: 5941ux.252


At the risk of repeating myself: In the Christian cosmos, predestination
must imply determinism. The system consists of the physical world,
our souls, Heaven, Hell, Satan, God, and angels. These are all mixed
up causally, with events in one domain able to cause effects in
any of the other domains. None of these systems is closed, that is,
causally isolated. Therefore, since there exists in the system a rule
by which the next state of the system can be predicted absolutely (God
uses this rule, which is "ask myself"), the system is deterministic.

If you don't buy that all the systems are causally connected, you must
have read a different set of Gospels from the one I did. Our souls
influence the world, which was influenced by Jesus (God), who went
to Hell (as did some angels and souls), and so on. Nowhere in the
Bible is there any suggestion that these worlds are causally separate--
in fact, their interconnection is frequently stressed. I am willing to
answer any claim that there exists in the Christian cosmology a plurality
of causally distinct domains, and I need only the Bible to do so. Use
the net or personal mail.

Finally, and again at the risk of repeating myself, it doesn't matter
whether or not you know in advance what God knows you will do. It still
isn't free. God made you. God made the situation in which you are making
the decision. God made the circumstances that contribute to your decision,
and He made your personality such that your decision would be a certain
way. You have no say in it. If He'd wanted to, He could have made you so
that you would decide differently. Your appearance of freedom is an
illusion created by ignorance. (Since I don't believe in a precognizant
Creator God, I don't believe this, but if you do, then you must be
prepared to accept the logical consequences of your beliefs.)

Tim Maroney