From: utzoo!hcr!tracy
Newsgroups: net.singles
Title: Re: Why Do People Go out With...?
Article-I.D.: hcr.386
Posted: Sun May  1 20:54:04 1983
Received: Sun May  1 20:58:41 1983
References: <128@abnjh.UUCP>

A girl that I was once involved with (thus I was fairly close to her) was
interested in a close male friend of mine (this is handy:  I got cried on
by both sides).  Both liked each other quite a bit and I think they could
have had an excellent relationship.  However, the young man's reputation
was that of a "good boy".  He was quite religious and generally gave the
impression of being a moral "goody-goody."  I knew that he was much
more open minded than he seemed.  The young woman's idea of a relationship
included a fair amount of healthy sex.  She was also un-religious.  She
thought that the nice young man would be too moralistic and not
interested enough in mild pleasures of the flesh.  In fact, some months
later, my male friend's views concerning religion had changed quite
dramatically and he never was the moralistic goody-goody she though he was.
She didn't go out with him.  Her decision was based on that mis-perception.

This is one of the most serious problems in the forming of relationships.
Both parties have expectations, some idea of the other's expectations,
and an idea of the ability of each to fulfil the other's expectations.
Many problems result when these understandings bear little resemblance to
reality.  With people who are just starting to form relationships (this
can happen very late in hack circles) often their expectations have no
relationship with what they really will enjoy:  they haven't got enough
experience to know what they really will enjoy.

A common problem is a misunderstanding of the importance of commitment.
One person (introspective, call he/she "Y") and the other ("X") may be
manouvering for a relationship.  Y may prefer a relationship with lots
of commitment, but be willing to try anything (especially for the sake
of X).  X may think that Y will demand a high level of commitment for
"shallow" reasons (like a talk while walking in the park where Y says
he/she values commitment, or just the general level on introspectiveness
of Y).  Y may turn out to really enjoy a low level of commitment, or
X may turn out to enjoy a high level.  They never get around to simply
trying it because all of their misconceptions and expectations got in the
way.

Sigh.  Experiment and post-mortem analysis are much more rewarding
that prejudging and avoidance. 

So as partial explanation to the question "Why do sane people go out
with complete jerks?":  because they see the jerk fulfilling expectations
or wants that they don't see the nice ones fulfilling.  Sometimes they are
right, sometimes wrong.  Life is neat, isn't it?

I am convinced that communication between people is the most important
thing affecting interpersonal relationships.  I am also convinced that
people are generally ignorant of it's effect in day-to-day terms.  We
understand (for instance) that a lack of sleep leads to all sorts of
negative effects on one's life.  How many people have such an applicable
and intuitive understanding of communication?

A principle I find very useful is:  People always lie.  When someone tells
you what they are feeling they are ALWAYS abstracting a complex, subjective
phenomenon.  This is the very least of the barriers to true understanding
of another's feelings.  People will say what they want to feel, or what
they think you expect them to feel, or they will lie to save feelings.
In philosophical conversations people will sound more inflexible than they
really are:  "I never like serious relationships."  Has the speaker tried a
serious relationship?  Are they saying that because they like to think
that they don't like serious relationships?  Are they guessing?
One has to listen to what is really being felt, not what is being said.
One also has to avoid using this principle to ignore obvious facts.  It
probably takes practice to apply it properly.

One of my very best friends fell in total teenage love with me when I met her,
at the same time I fell in total teenage love with her.  It tooks us four
years of misinterpreted communication to figure this out and start going
out.  All of this time our friends were aware of the feeling on either side
and were telling us about them.  I know that I was plagued by feelings of
inadequacy:  I though she expected more than I could offer.  We managed to 
miss obvious signs of affection:

	"Do you remember that party two years ago?  I dressed up in my new
blouse and pants just to impress you and then you talked about computers
and ignored me the whole night!"
	"Wow!  I remember that.  I did that because the night before
I dropped over to your house and you sounded annoyed with me.  I wasn't
sure if you even liked me as a friend."
	"You're crazy.  I was nuts about you.  I was grumpy then because my
Mom and Dad had another fight about the divorce.  Anyway, I had a temper
back then."

As it turned out we did go out eventually.  It was a disaster.  There were
bad feelings for a few months (but taking a cue from what I had learned
about the previous few years) I figured they were a result of this sort
of misunderstanding.  We persevered and are once again the closest of
friends.

Take chances and remember:  "the best way to become loved is to love."

Tracy ("alone for now and boy do I miss having a warm
        back to put my feet on in the morning") Tims
(decvax!hcr!hcrvax!tracy)
 
If you find mistakes of spelling or grammar in the above I am willing
to concede the moral advantage if you don't say anything about them.
If you have anything to add I WANNA HEAR IT!  I am trying to get my life
straight and need all the input I can get.