Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1a 7/7/83; site rlgvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!seismo!rlgvax!guy From: guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Guy H., & 55mph vs tailgating Message-ID: <982@rlgvax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 10-Aug-83 03:42:40 EDT Article-I.D.: rlgvax.982 Posted: Wed Aug 10 03:42:40 1983 Date-Received: Wed, 10-Aug-83 13:48:33 EDT References: <188@iddic.UUCP> Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA Lines: 111 Guy Harris says that it is unreasonable for him to pull over when people who want to pass him are tailing him. This is untrue... DAMN ****ING STRAIGHT IT'S UNTRUE! The statement that "Guy Harris says..." is *1000%* untrue! In case you haven't noticed, that ISN'T what I said AT ALL! Now, all of you people out there who keep citing my position as "(I) think it is unreasonable to pull over when people who want to pass (me)...", go to the head of the classroom and write, 100 times, on the blackboard, "I will not quote part of a statement out of context to make the person who made the statement look like an idiot." What I SAID was that it is unreasonable for someone to be expected to pull over when 1) they are traveling at a reasonable speed (i.e., not 10MPH below the speed limit), and 2) the road conditions do not permit - i.e., a) there is no place to pull over (either there IS no shoulder - yes, Virginia, there ARE such roads - in Virginia, in fact - or the shoulder is the ONLY place to pull over. Why the heck should I spray the underside of my car with gravel, slow down to a (near) dead stop on the shoulder, and go up and down the non-smooth transition between road surface and shoulder for YOUR convenience?), b) the only place to pull over is an exit-only lane for an exit I have no intention of taking, c) I am currently in the only exit lane for an exit I DO have an intention of taking, or d) the lane to the right is full of cars and I either can't pull over at all or would have to cut somebody off to do so. For one thing, all the people behind the first car in a caravan are all getting pissed off about it! THAT's no way to travel (especially at high speeds) and NO MATTER WHO's in the right, we should try to minimize the neuroses of our fellow drivers. Being expected to pull into the shoulder for everybody who wants to speed (no flames please, I make NO statement here about the morality of speeding. I don't get pissed off at people going 65 on a nominally 55MPH highway.) gets ME very pissed off, and contributes to MY neuroses. I get VERY tired of saying it, but courtesy is a TWO-way street. If you expect slower drivers to pull over for you (again, I repeat, I speak of "slower drivers" but make no claim as to how fast I drive), show THEM the courtesy of only expecting them to pull over in REASONABLE circumstances. Some people don't mind pulling over to the shoulder, some do. They have a right to stay on the pavement, no matter what any of you think. Secondly, in this situation Guy HIMSELF would very likely be considering various evil practices upon the bodies of those tailng him. True, and if they are bothering me because I'm going 55-65 on a 55MPH one-lane road and they all want to go 70, they deserve all the aforementioned practices. Last but not least, if he DID pull over, he would feel so good about being "better" than the crummy tailgators that he might even have a good trip the rest of the way. Fat ****ing chance; I'd feel so pissed off at those assholes that it would probably spoil my whole trip. Right is right, and wrong is wrong, but on the highway let's all pretend that we know about charity and cooperation. The next person who tries put forth the fallacious proposition that I'm making my point because of some concept of "right and wrong" about speeding can just go take a long walk off a short pier. I'm getting very tired of people dumping on me for a position which I tried my best to put forth clearly; that asking people to strongly inconvenience themselves by pulling over in an awkward situation just so they can speed has nothing to do with courtesy, charity, cooperation, or whatever. I don't putz along in the left lane at 55 while everyone wants to go 65. If, however, the traffic density is such that 60 or 65 is the most traffic will go, I see no reason to indulge somebody who wants to go faster. Either they'll have to pester the next guy after I pull over (fat chance they'll get past the whole lane, especially if the problem IS congestion and there's nowhere else for them to go), or they'll have to weave around. I personally have little sympathy for people who go below the speed limit in any lane other than the right one. See, people? I *do* agree with you in general about pulling over. BUT I don't get too pissed off if they're in the right lane; I just pull over to the left and pass them - and, if somebody is moving faster than I, pull back to the right as soon as convenient. I'm getting VERY burned out by this whole thing, but I see no reason to let people get away with presenting a completely distorted and inaccurate statement of my position and then paint me as an idiot because they claim I hold that position. So, just take your hands off the "n"/"^C"/"rubout" keys for a minute and sit still while I make a few things clear: 1) For the record, I remain unconvinced by the arguments for the 55MPH NMSL. It may, in truth, be a good idea, but I don't think the evidence is clear. 2) I think that pulling over WHEN CONVENIENT to let someone past is common courtesy. 3) I don't think that pulling over to the shoulder, or the acceler- ation lane, or an exit-only lane, or... is convenient. 4) Unless conditions are very bad, I always drive at least at the speed limit. I don't tool along at 45 on a 55MPH road; in fact, I get very aggravated when I'm behind someone who is doing so and I have no opportunity to pass them. HOWEVER, if there is no passing lane I realize that since courtesy is something GIVEN, NOT DEMANDED, I don't pester them. If they WANT to move over, OK, but I DON'T consider it to be "the only right thing to do". 5) "Courtesy of the road" doesn't mean "let the person who wants to go fastest do whatever they want." Now, would all you people who DO enjoy shooting at straw men realize that it doesn't make the person whom you claim to have made the statement look like an idiot, it makes YOU look like an idiot? Guy Harris {seismo,mcnc,we13,brl-bmd,allegra}!rlgvax!guy