Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!amd70!fortune!grw
From: grw@fortune.UUCP (Glenn Wichman)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: The Draft
Message-ID: <1388@fortune.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 31-Aug-83 18:56:18 EDT
Article-I.D.: fortune.1388
Posted: Wed Aug 31 18:56:18 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 3-Sep-83 10:52:12 EDT
References: <946@ittvax.UUCP> hou5e.719, <165@wxlvax.UUCP>, <912@utcsstat.UUCP> <1762@allegra.UUCP>, <444@qubix.Re: The Draft
Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA
Lines: 78


	I'm actually going to try to add something to net.flame without
    yelling or screaming at anybody.  I never read this group before,
    because I generally try to avoid yelling & screaming, but there are
    some interesting topics, some close to my heart.  I will try to cover
    all of them.

	Steve (Maurer):  Some places in the world just aren't civilized
    enough for democracy to take root?  Pretty condescending attitude,
    isn't it?  What's your definition of civilized?  How about "technological
    & moral development capable of producing nuclear weapons".  Sorry, I
    tried to lay off the sarcasm, but I've been buried in it for over an hour.

	To all those who say:  "How can you know how you would react in
    situation X if you've never been in situation X?"  Why is this so hard
    to accept?  No, really, I don't understand.  I know exactly how I would
    react in a number of situations that I have never actually been in, one
    of which is if someone were trying to kill me, and I could kill them
    instead.  Why don't you?  I HONESTLY cannot figure out what could
    block someone from projecting their reactions like that.  I live by
    my beliefs.

	A lot of the anti-anti-draft arguments have gone along the lines
    of "No, we are not violent people, but so-and-so is by nature violent,
    so we must react with violence (against our nature) for the good of
    mankind".  Okay, I have a hundred arguments against this, but I'll
    only put out one for now:
	I think it is a very limited perspective to say that "Those people"
    don't understand anything but "a bigger crowbar".  Nobody ever tries
    any other approach.  I know for a fact, by experience, that in at
    least some cases, a non-violent approach, speaking calmly and rationally,
    works just fine.  If anyone wants details, I will post them.  I don't
    want to bore anybody.

	Okay, those were responses to specific things.  Here is a general
    addition to the discussion:
	Let's look at a standard combat situation:  Okay, Khomeni is insane,
    and he is throwing his army at us, so we must defend ourselves.  Even
    if I were to agree that Khomeni is insane, and beyond saving, and thus
    should be killed for the good of mankind, I am not going to be asked
    to kill Khomeni.  I am going to be asked to kill some young Iranian
    lad who has been given as much [actually more] anti-US propaganda as
    I have been given anti-Iranian.  Do I have the right to decide that
    this man deserves to die?  I do not.  He may be a very good, if some-
    what deluded, individual.  We are not to judge our fellow man,
    that's not our job.

	I agree that the current government in Russia seems from all
    information I can gather to be not nearly as pleasant a government
    to live under as the one I am lucky enough to live under now.  I
    really do appreciate that this gov't. is one of the best around.
    I personally know people from Iron Curtain countries whose religious
    freedoms have been suppressed.  But I don't think that any amount
    of military buildup is going to stop them.  The argument that they
    don't understand anything except big sticks just doesn't wash.
    Many of you are going to think this ridiculously idealistic, but
    I think that we would have a better chance of changing things in
    the USSR by taking the exact opposite tack -- showing by example
    that living free is preferrable.  If we REALLY were a better
    (morally) country than the USSR, this is what we would do.  Maybe
    I haven't been stating this very clearly, and if so, I apologize.
    Explaining things via terminal never worked very well for me.

	If this country decides to have a draft, well, that's this
    country's business, I suppose.  I am a Christian and a Human
    before I am an American, and as both of the preceeding, I cannot
    in good concience go along with any of this draft/registration
    stuff.  Jesus has told me to Love my enemies -- and I intend to.
    Anyone who thinks that is idealistic/impractical/stupid has never
    REALLY tried it in practical situations.  I KNOW it works.


    P.s.  I was supposed to have registered for the draft, but did
    not, for those who are keeping tabs.


					Love,
						-Glenn