Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site cbosgd.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!tektronix!ucbcad!ucbvax!cbosgd!mark
From: mark@cbosgd.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.news
Subject: Re: mail routers
Message-ID: <176@cbosgd.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 5-Aug-83 14:41:16 EDT
Article-I.D.: cbosgd.176
Posted: Fri Aug  5 14:41:16 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 6-Aug-83 17:34:08 EDT
References: <2267@ncsu.UUCP>
Organization: Bell Labs, Columbus
Lines: 58

I'm seeing all sorts of discussion in here saying all sorts of things,
some of which resemble reality.  Let's set the record straight.

	Steve's pathalias programs ....
	are the best to use if you can use them.  The problem is with incorrect
	data.  The data Mark Horton has seems to be everyone's L.sys info, rather
	than what sites they poll.  That is why "-2" is an option on mkpath, instead
	of the default.
I don't know why you think you know what's in my database.  In the first place,
I think you're talking about the Usenet directory (which Karen does almost all
the work on - it's HER database), which has little or nothing to do with mail.
All that database does is show NEWS connections.  It also has a few pieces of
mail information, but the mail info there is not really useful, and the degree
of work involved to make it useful is more than we have time to do out of the
goodness of our hearts.  I in fact DO have a mail routing database, but my current
copy is not particularly organized or up to date.  I'm one of many that need
someone to keep the database up to date, as Karen has proposed to do (for a price).

	To generate optimum paths, Mail routing programs need to know who you poll
	and how often.  Often it is better to go through two sites that connect
	regularly than to go through one site that connects "once in a blue moon".
	If the connection list Mark Horton has contains sites that only connect
	once in a while, OF COURSE my mailer router will generate non-optimal paths.
My data is based on Steve Bellovin's pathalias program's format, and thus takes
costs into account.  Karen is proposing to use this format as well.

	Such an "official connections list" is in fact already being distributed
	monthly by Karen & Mark Horton, viz. in the form of a Usenet map.
	It's quite easy to retrieve a pahtnames database from that.
Again, what we're distributing is NOT an official MAIL connections list, it's
an official NEWS connections list.  The mail connections are far far more
involved - there are perhaps 20 or 50 times more active mail links than news
links.

One other thing I'd like to make clear.  Karen is not an employee of Bell Labs.
The service she has proposed would not be run by Bell Labs, nor would it be
run using the cbosgd machine (which is owned by Bell Labs).  It would be a
small business run independently from AT&T, BTL, or myself.  BTL has generously
allowed her to use the cbosgd machine for the Usenet directory, from which the
entire community have benefitted.  But obviously a business has to be run from
its own machine.  I'd also like to emphasize that, while I think it's great that
she's considering starting a business, she's doing it all on her own.  I am
not part of this business - I work for BTL.

One other point - I have seen a lot of people say that what is needed is for
someone to keep a master copy of the UUCP directory on line.  I agree.  But
what everybody seems to expect is that some sucker is going to offer to do
this for free.  We've gone about a year now and nobody is keeping an up to date
UUCP map.  Nobody has offered.  If someone is willing to do that much work for
free, I think it's great.  I'll wholeheartedly lend them my encouragement.
But I think it's time to realize that if nobody is going to do it for free,
it isn't going to get done unless somebody gets paid to do it.  Karen has done
a lot of work for Usenet for free, and I for one really appreciate it.  I
think the rest of the net does too.  But you have to realize that just because
she's doing a 5 hour per week job for free as a volunteer does not obligate
her (or me) to do a 40 hour per week job for free.

	Mark Horton