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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!eagle!mhuxt!mhuxi!mhuxa!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxk!jdj55611
From: jdj55611@ihuxk.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re:Jesus is the same as Joseph Smith
Message-ID: <425@ihuxk.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 15-Aug-83 22:16:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxk.425
Posted: Mon Aug 15 22:16:17 1983
Date-Received: Tue, 16-Aug-83 13:17:37 EDT
Organization: BTL Naperville, Il.
Lines: 73



I would like to make some comments on the article that Steve Den Beste
submitted. Concerning the comparison between Christ and Smith:

>>The syllogism went something like:
>>There were reports that Smith was a fraud.
>>There were similiar reports that Jesus was a fraud.
>>If Smith was a fraud then Jesus must have been one also.
>>QED Smith was a saint.
>>This syllogism is incomplete, and therefore ambiguous.
>>Unfortunately, I interpret it the other way:
>>QED They BOTH were frauds.

First of all, I was not attempting to create the syllogism that Steve
pushed on me. I would not agree, logically, to either of the 
conclusions he proffered; and find his interpretation equally
ambiguous. The point is: basing a decision of the credibility
of Joseph Smith on the what other people have reported is
not adequate. I do admit that it is an easy out; by simply accepting
what the detracters of J. S. propound, you do not have to put forth
the effort to decide for yourself. 

Concerning the three witnesses and the maintenance of their testimony
of the Book of Mormon, Steve proposes:

>>Fraud is a felony, and if they confessed they faced long prison terms.
>>
>>Even after they ceased to benefit from the fraud, they had a vested
>>interest in maintaining it so as to maintain their freedom of movement.
>>Remember, this was the U.S. of the 1830's and 1840's, and they used
>>to HANG horse-thieves. What would they do to someone who had swindled
>>thousands of dollars from people?

Yes, I agree. Let us remember that this was the 1830's and 40's. This is
the same time that Gov. Lilburn Boggs of Missouri issued the `Mormon
Extermination Order' which effectively legalized mob violence against
the members of the church in that state. This is also the period in which
Joseph Smith was murdered while incarcerated and the Saints were driven
from their homes in Nauvoo in the middle of the winter. 

I would say that this is not the healthiest clime to be in and have
your name attached to the Book of Mormon as a witness. Do you think
that the same people would drive the `Mormons' out of the state would
then turn around and try someone for claiming that his part in the
whole affair was a hoax? I would not think so, rather the opposite
would be true. By claiming the Book of Mormon to be a hoax, Gov.
Boggs, probably, would have given the `Key to the City' to the
three witnesses.

Several years before his death, David Whitmer, one of the three,
recorded this statement on the experience:

	"It was in June, 1829,[when we saw the plates] the latter
	part of the month, and the eight witnesses saw them, I think
	the next day or the day after. Joseph showed them the
	plates himself, but the angel showed us the plates...
	I saw them just as plain as I see this bed and I heard
	the voice of the Lord, as distinctly as I ever heard
	anything in my life, declaring that the records of the
	plates of the Book of Mormon were translated by the
	gift and power of God."

I find it unfortunate that some deem themselves experts on other
peoples religions and find it difficult to equate the `Christian
ethic' of love and honor with some of the allegations I have
seen recently. I am sure that it is amusing to an atheist to see
`christians' nailing each other to the wall; a type of behavior which
is, I hope, atypical.

			J. D. Jensen
			ihuxk!jdj55611
			BTL Naperville IL