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From: jj@rabbit.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Well, prove my point for me!  Thanks!
Message-ID: <1930@rabbit.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 14-Sep-83 13:39:26 EDT
Article-I.D.: rabbit.1930
Posted: Wed Sep 14 13:39:26 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 15-Sep-83 00:54:45 EDT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill
Lines: 38



	rabbit!jj declares that socialism has never worked anywhere:
	>>>Why did they fail?  The simple reason is the fundamental
			. . .
	>>>when they can slack off. 
	
	What about Israel? While free enterprise is certainly encouraged,
	Israel has always had socialist governments (until 1977). The
	nature of a kibbutz, the backbone of the modern Jewish settlement
	of the land, is socialist. Even with a more conservative government
	in power for the last 6 years, the basic socialist elements of the
	society (free medicare for all, cheap food, etc.) are still held to.
	And while the economy isn't in the greatest shape, the country's
	still going strong.
	-- 
	
"Still going strong".  With HOW MUCH outside support?  Any what's their
rate of inflation?  Israel is certainly the most successful country with
a socialist basis.  It's also the ONLY socialist country that was made 
nearly exclusively of those who voluntarily moved into it.  While the
first (and some of the second) generation is going strong, I think
we need to wait until the idealism wears off and then see whence
goes Israel.  (It would be nice for it to work.)  Of course,
what do you do with all the displaced people?  Well, we're still
fighting about that.  In Israel's case, the problem is not how to
enlighten the population, it's how to enlighten those who were
tossed out of their homes in  order to begin the experiment.
<Please note that I'm not taking a stand on the desirability of
establishing Israel as a separate nation.  I AM taking a stand on 
the way it was done.>  I don't think that throwing the indigenous population
out of any area is a good way to start a country,  socialist or otherwise.
It's only advantage is that it allows deportation of people who don't
agree with you, rather than (as in most socialist countries) supression 
of the dissenters.

ciao
rabbit!jj