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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!eagle!allegra!alice!rabbit!jj
From: jj@rabbit.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: rabbit!jj on socialism
Message-ID: <1934@rabbit.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 15-Sep-83 10:51:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: rabbit.1934
Posted: Thu Sep 15 10:51:54 1983
Date-Received: Fri, 16-Sep-83 00:43:20 EDT
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill
Lines: 53


	>Every government that has tried socialism has failed in one
	>way or another.  Either they have turned into a dictatorship
	>(via one of several paths, some 'socialist' places never were,
	>no doubt) or they have failed by violent revolution. 
	><Some, alas, with help from the USSR or the US.)
	
	Need I mention Sweden and England?  
Yes, why don't you mention England?  They're bankrupt, they're supporting
their whole economy and lifestyle on windfall North Sea oil, and they
STILL can't get their currency under control, to say nothing of all the
labor unions that think they should be able to slack off at will.
Have you ever BEEN to England?
	Sweeden isn't doing as well as you seem to think either.
They are doing as well as Israel, which is saying something.  They don't
require as much propping up, but they DO sacrifice quite a bit
to stay that way.  (Look at their record of innovation, new development,
etc.)
	
	>Why did they fail?  The simple reason is the fundamental
	>fallacy of socialism, namely that all people will act in an
	>'enlightened' manner, and continue to produce/act responsibly
	>when they can slack off.
	
	Slacking off probably won't work in say, Nicaragua, where the philosophy
	is "Those who don't work, don't eat". (with exceptions for those 
	unable to work for reasons beyond their control.)

Yeah, right, kill off everyone who disagrees with you and call them
enemies of the state.  I've heard that before.
	
	> The very premise of socialism requires that you
	>assume that the state is perfect and obey it without question.
	
	No, this is the premise of dictatorship, not socialism. You 
	seem to have the two confused.

Wrong, O sophisticated one.  You confuse.  YOU confuse the difference
between ideals and real implemenatation.  The premise of socialism is
that the government knows what's best for you.  That requires that you 
believe implicitly in everything the government does, right or wrong.
If you can't swallow something in a socialist state and you are a good
socialist, you should eat your complaints, and assume that YOU
are the flaw.  I don't care if you think that's dictatorship or not.
You used the words, not me.  
	As far as I'm concerned, a dictatorship is a different
kind of beast.  You do NOT have to agree with anything a dictator
says, you just have to DO what he/she says.  In fact, that is somewhat
less mind control than a socialist state, where what is right is defined
by social aims, which are automatically deemed correct.  A dictator brainwashes
you.  A socialist state expects you to brainwash yourself.  Cute.

rabbit!<bah!>jj