Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site rabbit.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!eagle!allegra!alice!rabbit!jj
From: jj@rabbit.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.flame
Subject: Re: Nicaraguan flaming- please move to net.flame
Message-ID: <1941@rabbit.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 16-Sep-83 11:39:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: rabbit.1941
Posted: Fri Sep 16 11:39:54 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 17-Sep-83 01:54:18 EDT
References: <2758@uiucdcs.UUCP>, <1916@rabbit.UUCP>, <210@tty3b.UUCP> <1923@rabbit.UUCP>, <1073@uwvax.ARPA>
Organization: Bell Labs, Murray Hill
Lines: 49


Gosh, Jeff, why should I act any better than
my esteemed opponents, like you?
I didn't say that the heart of socialism is that
it espouses lazyness, I said that the lack of a reward system
encourage slack. <Should be good for sub-genuises, eh?>


You complain that calling the US socialist and then accusing
all socialist countries of lacking freedom is a contradiction,
since the US has freedoms.

If you READ and UNDERSTOOD the article that you are so unhappy
about, you would know that there is no contradiction.
The lack of freedom is not inevetably associated with the socialist
state, it is associated with the inevetiable breakup
of the socialist state, by whatever methods.  I also notice
that you think I meant violence when I said 'failing'.  That(s
not my problem, that's yours.  I meant that the socialist system
breaks down in some important way.  Revolutions have that effect.
So do changes made from within the system.  Don't trouble me
becuase you can't imagine a non-violent way to make
changes in a society.


You say that in a socialist system, everyone will have a say
in how the government does things.  How do you then account
for personal differences?  How do you avoid the tyranny of
the majority?  How do you introduce changes of a magnitude that
the majority of the population fails to understand them?
How do you support scientific research, since most people just
won't care?  <Thank you Sweden, for that one!>


How do you support massive changes (when necessary) from the status
quo? Big dislocations always bother most of the people because they have to give something up.  
How do you support the idea of a peacetime army?  Nobody likes
an army.

I really shouldn't give you the chance to answer all of these questions,
since anyone can come up with non-practical solutions.  

a
I suspect that if all people were equally intellegent and well informed,
socialism would work.  It's clear, however, that such assumptions are
absolutely absurd.  <Note that the whole world would have to be
equally well informed, etc, or you would run into the violence problem.>

rabbit!<yawn>jj