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From: preece@uicsl.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Re: Clar ... gun' -BAH HUMBUG! - (nf)
Message-ID: <3026@uiucdcs.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 28-Sep-83 22:51:22 EDT
Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.3026
Posted: Wed Sep 28 22:51:22 1983
Date-Received: Fri, 30-Sep-83 22:28:49 EDT
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#R:rabbit:-198300:uicsl:4300080:000:3904
uicsl!preece    Sep 28 10:39:00 1983

	In the case Mr. K. brings up, it's clear that the individual
	doing the attacking was NOT a reasonable individual, and
	talking/hiding was NOT a reasonable action.  
----------
In other words, he was exactly the sort of person who would NOT have
been stopped by the sight of a gun, increasing the likelihood of
shooting. Hiding, on the other hand, was a perfectly valid and
available response.
----------
	I find the fact that people wish to deprive responsible people of
	the right to defend themselves utterly reprehensible.
----------
Define responsible in a useful way.
----------
				  The use of a gun in domestic
	disputes is not as important as it is believed to be, as
	Mr. K's experience shows, since a tire iron, butcher knife,
	or even a common brick can be used (even by a 4'6" granny) to
	murder any member of the human race.
----------
It is much harder to kill someone with a tire iron or a knife or a brick
than with a gun. Especially when the assailant is just waving the implement
around at a resisting person (such weapons are most effective from ambush,
where the first blow can be decisive). Witness this incident -- the man
with the tire iron didn't kill anyone, did he. Ask yourself, would you
rather be attacked by someone carrying a tire iron or a .357?
----------
				  A gun, in UNINFORMED
	hands (and uninformed hands is what we will have when handguns
	are illegal) is very likely to cause damage.
----------
A gun in informed hands is just as likely to cause damage. 
----------
						  (Perhaps
	we could require TV to show realistic injuries when 
	guns are used?
----------
An excellent idea, though hard to implement.
----------
	I propose the following:
		Whenever anyone is injured during an event in which they would
	not have been injured if they were armed, (given that they are
	not the assailant(s)) a random person in the gun-control lobby
	should be arrested on criminal charges of criminal neglegence,
----------
My vote for silliest suggestion of the week. For every such injury, and I
submit there aren't many that would qualify), complete handgun control
would eliminate many others. The simple fact is that a gun is useful for
self defense only in very limited circumstances.
	
		Whenever a person is injured with a gun (weilded by a
	criminal, assuming that guns are legal, for the minute), 
	prosecute that person to the fullest extent possible
----------
Definitely.
----------
		 When, and only when, a criminal knows that both his
	victim and the legal system have the power to cause him harm,
	will the criminal be motivated to find some other way to survive.
----------
The problem is that someone who is sufficiently ready to commit a
crime can overcome the victim's resistence by pre-emptive action. This
makes the average severity of a crime worse (most muggings involve
little or no physical harm; if muggers feel they have to disable their
victims to avoid danger, many more victims will be severely injured).
----------
		  A number of you have suggested that Mr. K's
	responsible actions indicate that he should NEVER be trusted
	to hold a weapon.  Some of you have escalated this argument into a
	personal attack on the VICTIM of the crime.
----------
I think that someone whose first response to a possibly dangerous
situation is to grab a deadly weapon and sally forth is not a good
risk. 
----------
	There is a news story every day about how some individual in the
	US has defended him/her self and who is now being prosecuted for
	that act.
----------
Not in the papers I read. Such incidents are hardly common.

The simple fact is that guns are not useful except in very limited
circumstances and in almost every other situation will simply make
things worse. If nothing else, muggers would get a lot of guns in the
course of their activities, increasing the number in illegal circulation.

scott preece
pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!preece