Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hp-pcd.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!floyd!clyde!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!hp-pcd!jimd From: jimd@hp-pcd.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Handguns and Cops - (nf) Message-ID: <1977@hp-pcd.UUCP> Date: Sat, 1-Oct-83 03:48:06 EDT Article-I.D.: hp-pcd.1977 Posted: Sat Oct 1 03:48:06 1983 Date-Received: Thu, 6-Oct-83 22:03:37 EDT Sender: netnews@hp-pcd.UUCP Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Corvallis OR Lines: 81 #R:ccieng5:-14800:hp-kirk:7100032:000:3754 hp-kirk!jimd Sep 26 11:14:00 1983 I am not familiar with the details of gun control laws in New York, and I'm not an expert on the laws of Oregon, either. I would like to point out that I was surprised to hear that you had a rifle in your dwelling, even if you had your other guns in Wyoming. My personal experience has been that being shot by a rifle or a handgun is painful - I make no distinction between the two. (I worked as a night watchman for a while.) You are quite lucky to be alive. Most police officers that I know would have used deadly force without hesitation. You are correct that the police shoot to kill. I know of several officers that would be either alive or uninjured had they killed instead of wounded their assailent(s). My unprofessional and somewhat unqualified opinion of your reactions to your experience consists of the following reactions: 1) I commend your willingness to help your neighbor. Too many people are afraid to 'get involved' - no doubt increasing the victim count. 2) I hope that you and your family recover in good stead. 3) I am concerned that your tendency to reach for a gun is too quick. 4) I do not believe for an instant that you would have, as you claim, not killed the fellow with your .357 magnum. You may be good at shooting at tin cans, but unless you have had para-military training, the panic of such a situation could easily override common sense or the best of intentions. When in doubt about the safety of a person, the following steps are best: 1) CONTAIN the situation. You did this correctly when the woman came to the door and you let her in. 2) IFF there is doubt about the safety of the situation (you correctly decided that there was a danger), CALL THE POLICE FIRST. Do NOT escalate the situation by moving about or arming yourself unless it is the absolute last resort. If you are assualted you may defend yourself, that is clear. If you cannot call the police, there is no doubt that self defence is the order of business. For gawds sakes use the absolute minimum amount of force. If you shoot the guy in the panic of the moment, and he has his body turned the wrong way, it could look like murder, and then the hot water hits the fan. Remember, if you do use deadly force, you are playing a game where the rules are vague and the penalties are large. I would encourage you to seek some form of training in these matters, and then I hope you will sell your guns. You clearly have a short fuse, and leap to the John Wayne solutions that folks like me fear. You were lucky this time, but will you be lucky next time? The officer was lucky this time. No doubt he has lost hours of sleep in a cold sweat over that incident. As a result, will he be more prone to shoot next time? Or will he hesitate next time, thinking that he might not have to shoot (as in your case) and get killed? How often will he worry out loud about such incidents to his wife (who may be concerned too...)? I am not a gun control advocate. I am not an NRA supporter, either. I will not try to argue gun control issues because, frankly, I just don't know enough about them. I will tell you this: I am far more frightened of incidents such as yours than I am of gun-toting criminals. At the risk of getting a few flames, I view the exchange of gunfire in a holdup as more routine and business-like (such as war, for instance - horrible phrase!) than the highly emotional and unpredictable circumstances surrounding a family dispute. I'm not trying to justify the use of guns by crooks, I'm just pointing out that family disputes where guns become involved are incredibly dangerous - and the participants are generally NOT criminals. Please be careful.