Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!gummo!whuxlb!pyuxll!eisx!npoiv!npois!hogpc!houxm!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!mcdaniel From: mcdaniel@uiucdcs.UUCP Newsgroups: net.startrek Subject: Re: Phaser that idiot! - (nf) Message-ID: <2879@uiucdcs.UUCP> Date: Sat, 17-Sep-83 22:30:30 EDT Article-I.D.: uiucdcs.2879 Posted: Sat Sep 17 22:30:30 1983 Date-Received: Mon, 19-Sep-83 00:56:01 EDT Lines: 98 #R:uiucdcs:24900010:uiucdcs:24900011:000:5235 uiucdcs!mcdaniel Sep 17 14:19:00 1983 Various responses to responses . . . /***** uiucdcs:net.startrek / pur-phy!crl / 2:25 pm Sep 16, 1983 */ In the novelization, I seem to remember that Scotty says that none of the robots were able to work in the chamber. Charles LaBrec /* ---------- */ [Hmmmm . . . mayhap. The material lining the radiation chamber, though, obviously contained a lot of the radiation (as evidenced by the fact that the others in Engineering were still alive). I'd intuitively imagine that a robot could use whatever material/force field/? that the radiation chamber used. Can't argue with the book, though. One point for you.] /***** uiucdcs:net.startrek / inuxe!burton / 1:25 pm Sep 16, 1983 */ (b) It was possible for humans to repair the warp drive. Who? * . . . What -- there weren't any * experienced officers other than Scotty aboard? A ship leaving * for a longish voyage -- no matter how safe -- with only *one* * person capable to carry out repairs? What if he had fallen * down the latter and broken his neck? Whoever was responsible for personnel selections should draw a stiff reprimand: a ship *cannot* afford such screwups! I believe that the Enterprise was on a training mission when they were called away to the Rigel space lab; something about being the only ship in the quadrant. Thus, only a bare-bones experienced crew was on board; everyone else were trainees. Remember what Scotty said about his nephew when he died? "He stayed at his post, even when the other trainees ran." So, it is possible that the only experienced officers on board were Kirk, Spock, Uhura, Chekov, Sulu, and Scotty. Doug Burton /* ---------- */ [Perhaps, but . . . Suppose you get a group together to go sailing. Nobody else in the boat has ever sailed before but you -- but that's OK, because it's just a "training mission." But a storm comes up and you are washed overboard . . . Starships should have backup personnel for the same reason the space shuttle has 5 independent computers: even if it's only a "training mission", problems can arise with the primary system -- or engineer, on the Enterprise. I stick by my comment.] /***** uiucdcs:net.startrek / ihlts!rjnoe / 1:27 pm Sep 16, 1983 */ . . . But no one is expected to commit suicide, not even to save a starship and all others aboard. This is extraordinary valor, which can never be expected of all people, if anyone at all. [I beg to differ. I remember a scene in Heinlein's "Farmer in the Sky." I'm paraphrasing here from memory. A smart-alec asks the chief engineer "If the fusion drive is sealed off and automatic, why bother having engineers around? You don't run it and you can't fix it." The chief engineer answers, "To answer smart-assed questions like that." However, the protagonist's father later remarks that there are certain repairs that the chief engineer could make. "He would go aft to make the repairs . . . and shortly thereafter his second-in-command would succeed him. A chief engineer is chosen for many qualities, and technical competence is only one of them." I disagree with Heinlein on many things, but I tend to agree on this point.] Certainly Spock was the only one who could have done it. McCoy warned Spock that humans cannot survive in the chamber. Spock, of course, reminded McCoy that he is not human. . . . [Spock didn't survive either, did he? The key question is actually "Could anyone else survive long enough to effect repairs?"] I also don't think one can accuse McCoy and Scott of cowardice because they tried to keep Spock from dying. In the first place, I doubt that they knew the ship's tactical situation, not being bridge personnel. . . . [Perhaps Kirk should have said "Fix it in 4 minutes or we're dead meat." . . . But wasn't Kirk saying something urgent over the intercom when Scotty passed out, like "Scotty, we *need* warp power"? Scotty, when awake, could reasonably assume that speed wasn't needed because Kirk had a hot date on Epsilon Indi III.] . . . If it's hard to believe that they were in a military organization, it's because they weren't. Starfleet is not really a military organization. . . . [Yeah, Marcus was flaming at the time. I'll grant you this point.] . . . (Perhaps Star Trek IV will be about the Klingons firing photon torpedos at civilian passenger space ships passing through the neutral zone which the Klingons themselves repeatedly violate intentionally.) >-| [The (false) Kobiashi Maru (sp?) was "hit" by a (virtual) "space mine" in the (computer-simulated) Neutral Zone, so Starfleet would know how to handle this scenario. [Please keep KAL007 off net.startrek!]] Kirk has stated MANY times (and we've seen adequate evidence of this) that Starfleet has peaceful intentions (military == war == !peace) and that their weapons are used for defensive purposes. . . . [Starfleet has "peaceful intentions" but it does not prevent them from blowing away dirty no-good imperialistic Klingons. Military training is necessary, I assert, to handle a ship for purposes of fighting.] Roger Noe ...ihnp4!ihlts!rjnoe /* ---------- */