Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site masscomp.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!grkermit!masscomp!trb From: trb@masscomp.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re:An honest request for information Message-ID: <126@masscomp.UUCP> Date: Wed, 26-Oct-83 19:45:46 EDT Article-I.D.: masscomp.126 Posted: Wed Oct 26 19:45:46 1983 Date-Received: Thu, 27-Oct-83 23:46:07 EDT References: <2226@yale-com.UUCP> Organization: MASSCOMP, Littleton, MA Lines: 65 Thank you, Mary Anne Wolf, for your frank comments on women's attitudes toward sex in (new) relationships. Your note got me to thinking about some of my perceptions about my pursuit of happiness in everyday relationships with women. In this enlightened age, there is much talk about equality and (anti-)sexism. And Feminism. During some of my travels, I have become confused, let me elaborate. I do a lot of contra dancing. Contra dancing is a form of folk dancing native to New England, and is sort of like square dancing and sort of like English country dancing. Anyway, it's casual couple dancing, and often, you go to a contra dance alone, and dance with a different motos (member of the opposite sex) each dance. Contra dancing is simple and fun, I enjoy it quite a bit. It seems that in this area of the country (Eastern Mass), most of the women who go to contra dances do social work, most of the men are EE/CS hackers named David. This was told to me, I didn't make it up, but it seems to be true. Anyway, as a rule, the dancers are erudite and informed, thoroughly modern, etc. I explain all this as a matter of background. I would expect non-sexist attitudes to be the order of the day. Too bad it ain't so. Even when there are an even number of men and women, or more women, men ask women to dance much much more often than women ask men. Even worse, some women (usually the good dancers,) are competed for by the men who chase women down to reserve dances later in the night. I ask one of these women for a dance and she says "How about four dances from now (or 2:15 a week from Thursday)?" I usually refuse, for a number of reasons. I would think that it would be pretty confusing for a woman to remember who she promised which dance to, particularly when she doesn't know the person involved. (By the way, it is most common to contra dance with people you've never met before.) Also, this practice keeps brand new male dancers from getting to dance with experienced woman dancers. A clumsy and perhaps shy male won't pursue one of these women-with-lists for an appointment, out of fear of not living up to the standards of all the dandies on her list. The idea of being a man on the list is degrading, not unlike the stereotypical woman in the stud's little black book. Also, a new male dancer is probably unaware of the whole protocol of "reserving" dances, and would be taken aback by it. I've never seen a man with such a list. Some men (who are used to this behavior, which is sort of regional in contra dancing) just think that I'm just bitching about sour grapes, and I am, but that doesn't mean that they aren't (sour). What annoys me is that it's the woman's choice to prepetuate this nonsense, and these women who treat men in this demeaning way are women who complain when they are treated in a demeaning way. Consider the situation I've just described with the roles reversed - men keeping lists of women to dance with. If it happened, women would complain, but it doesn't happen, because of the pursuer/pursuee roles in our culture. You want to know who can change this active/passive crap? Women can change it by being active. It hasn't happened yet, because most women are content in the passive pursued role. I can't respect a person who demands equal rights who won't meet me halfway. These attitudes won't be changed by the courts. (They'll be changed in the DANCE HALLS of this GREAT COUNTRY blah blah blah, I think I've made my point ;-) Balance and swing, Andy Tannenbaum Masscomp Inc Littleton MA (617) 486-9581