Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1a 7/7/83; site rlgvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!seismo!rlgvax!guy From: guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: What ever happened to Human Rights Message-ID: <1426@rlgvax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 23-Nov-83 00:34:55 EST Article-I.D.: rlgvax.1426 Posted: Wed Nov 23 00:34:55 1983 Date-Received: Fri, 25-Nov-83 05:11:20 EST References: <524@ihuxp.UUCP> Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA Lines: 93 What a great case of snooty liberalism. . . . Yes, can you liberals think of that. Oh, shut up. Address specific individuals, or specific statements, instead of just addressing "liberals" as if they were all considerably less than one standard deviation from your idea of "liberalism". Yes, I know that "conservative" has been used as an epithet in the exact same manner, but it isn't any more correct there and thus doesn't excuse its use. We have fought for our freedom in the past, from the Colonial British Empire, which was based on a lot of the same principles that the modern-day Solviet Empire is based on. Yes, and C is based on a lot of the same principles as Algol 68; after all, they both have a "+=" operator. At the time, Britain had considerably stronger democratic institutions than the Soviet Union has ever had; in fact, that was probably one of the reasons we objected to the treatment we received at the hands of the government in London. In the civil war we fought for the freedom of the black people. Well, it is said that we also fought for the principle that a state couldn't unilaterally secede from the Union; I'm not sure whether the freedom of blacks in the South was the overriding concern for the North. In the first World War, we fought for the democracies, in a war that was not ours. Well, not ours except for a little offer Germany made to Mexico about getting some of our southwestern territory if they helped Germany out... We have fought in the past for the freedom of many differant people, and we will fight in the future for many differant people. Agreed. However, we've also fought for less altruistic reasons, sometimes at the same time as we fought for freedom. We shouldn't convince ourselves that we're solely fighting for a Good Cause if we're really doing it to keep those nasty left-wing dictators from raising the price of the banana crop (as opposed to those nice right-wing firm governments who will give the United Fruit Company freedom to run their plantations as they choose). We have stood as a country for the Bill of Rgihts and other Human Rights through our history. And still do. That was why I support the American Intervention in Grenada. Ok. Now would you support American intervention in Chile, say, to restore a free government there? Perhaps we should have gone in when Pinochet and company took over, to stop a gang of butchers from overthrowing a freely elected government? Why didn't we fight for their freedom? By the way, the next time that they hold a free election in a Russian Communist country, I will vote for a Democrat, for then I will begin to believe the tripe that they try to tell us. It ain't so simple; the world doesn't divide into Republicans and Democrats, Good Guys and Bad Guys, anti-Communists and pro-Communists like that. I might point out that it was a Democrat who was President when we invaded Cuba; a Democrat who was President when we invaded the Dominican Republic; a Democrat who was President when we invaded Vietnam; heck, it was a Democrat who was president when we invaded Korea! Enough flaming for I now that by now, for those that agree with me are standing proud in agreement, while the knee-jerks (if I can borrow the term) No, you can not borrow the term; it is inaccurate. have stopped reading now, and have gone back to Pravda or whatever is currently in vogue with the liberal population, Pravda has not been in vogue with any segment of the liberal population for a long time. I don't think there was much of any uncritical support for the Soviet Union outside the hard left since after WW2. It gets very tiresome to see any action critical of US policy to be taken as proof that one supports the Soviet Union. In many cases, the best attitude is to criticize them *both*. Frankly, I wish we and they would both completely avoid direct intervention in foreign countries' governments, by and large; if somebody is going to do so, admittedly, I'd prefer it be us, but this doesn't mean I like everything we've done. Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy P.S. Yes, I *know* people have been as inaccurately harsh towards "conservatives" as this article was towards "liberals". I don't like either tendency. Any flames at me for not letting someone get away with slandering "liberals" will merely provoke me to track you down and kill your puppy (thanks and a tip of the Hatlo, I believe, to Francis Vincent Zappa).