Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC830919); site mcvax.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!security!genrad!decvax!mcvax!jim
From: jim@mcvax.UUCP (Jim McKie)
Newsgroups: net.misc
Subject: Re: Opinions in News ("Overnight") discussion -> net.flame
Message-ID: <5509@mcvax.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 15-Nov-83 21:04:08 EST
Article-I.D.: mcvax.5509
Posted: Tue Nov 15 21:04:08 1983
Date-Received: Tue, 15-Nov-83 22:09:27 EST
References: <189@vortex.UUCP>
Organization: Math.Centre, Amsterdam
Lines: 75

I hate the following style of repeating what has already been seen, but...

	Amsterdam (and any other countries or individual sites) have my official
	permission to drop any and all newsgroups that they don't enjoy.

Well, Overnight seems to be doing a great job of informing the
Emerging Nation as to the structure of the world beyond the walls
of mist at the edge of the ocean - Amsterdam is neither a
country or an individual site.

	The loss of "Overnight" would mean the loss of one of the few
	truly "intelligent" news programs in this country.

It is sad that your TV service is so bad, but, again, why inflict ME with
your views on it? It doesn't even have enough lines on the screen. Also,
see recent discussion in net.ai over the definition of intelligence.

	I'd be interested in seeing the complete list of newsgroups
	that Europe receives -- I'll bet that there are plenty of
	"non-important" messages in there one way or another that
	aren't complained about because you find them to be "amusing".

OK, here they are:
	net.bugs,net.dcom,net.lan,net.micro,net.news,net.unix-wizards
	net.ai,net.arch,net.cog-eng,net.emacs,net.eunice,net.followup
	net.general,net.graphics,net.lang,net.misc,net.research,,net.text
Those in the second two rows were only turned on again last week after
they were stopped earlier this year due to too much volume, too much
trivia. Of course, these are the groups for Continental Europe, I can't
speak for Britain, only Ronnie can do that.
There is a difference between being "amusing" and being "trivial". If
you have ever watched a US comedian in Europe you would know what I mean.

	If the usa.* type classifications could be generally and precisely
	used, it would be much easier to restrict certain materials to the
	major geographic community of interest -- but my experience so far
	has been that these mechanisms are not yet reliable.

Well, Europe bothered, why can't you? Would you like to see articles
in Dutch, or from a Scandinavian natural-language keyboard?

	If you're THAT concerned about messages, then hire someone at the
	gateway to screen misc messages before they make the hop -- you can 
	probably find someone willing to do the job for free -- 

We've been through this before, it is neither practical or unbiased.
Anyway, would YOU like to ask Armando to do it?

	But classifying a topic as "crap" simply because it doesn't happen
	to interest you is ridiculous when the topic *does* apply to 
	the vast majority of readers on the network, and when a reliable
	mechanism for reaching those readers in a more precise manner does
	not actually exist.  

Two for (both Lauren) and two against; one abstention. Lots of interest.
As for another method, haven't you tried hanging out your window and
shouting? It worked for Peter Finch in "Network".....

    Proper group selection for messages is important.  However, since
    I am firmly convinced that my group selection for my original
    messages was correct (and would post to the same groups again)
    it is obvious that there are more complex issues here.

Someone politely pointed out to me that my original article ('gripe') didn't
conform to the standards set out for USENET etiquette. This is true, and
I apologise. However, one of the problems with sending mail to people about
net abuse is that the perpetrator always has good reasons for their action,
and they spare no effort in telling you so (I can play this trick too).

	Since we now *are* beginning to move into touchy subjects, perhaps
	a move of the discussion to net.flame would be in order.

I agree. That's one of the groups we don't get.

Jim McKie	Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam		....mcvax!jim