Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1exp 11/4/83; site ihuxx.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!floyd!clyde!ihnp4!ihuxx!ignatz From: ignatz@ihuxx.UUCP (Dave Ihnat, Chicago, IL) Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards Subject: Re: Berkeley Flame Message-ID: <585@ihuxx.UUCP> Date: Tue, 8-Nov-83 19:41:14 EST Article-I.D.: ihuxx.585 Posted: Tue Nov 8 19:41:14 1983 Date-Received: Thu, 10-Nov-83 01:28:05 EST References: <13415@sri-arpa.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Il Lines: 63 Ah, ahem. I'm afraid I have an opinion on this...please note that it's my opinion, and not that of AT&T Bell Laboratories or Analysts International Corporation. No, I strongly suspect that Berkeley didn't expect to go into the software business. I doubt strongly whether that was in their mind when they first started hacking the heck out of Unix(Tm); nor, when they graciously agreed to sell the first copy of BSD...oh, legally, of course, and only to legally licensed sourceholders. (I can well imagine the academic pride in showing how nifty this mod was, or that enhancement...we all feel it from time to time.) And I certainly don't believe that they consciously set about to split the Unix world. But they did. In case you haven't noticed it, there are two large, armed camps out there in the real world. There are the USG Unix people, clinging to the hope that some sort of standard will be imposed on the world. And there are the BSD people, with a flavor of Unix based on a USG release that is ancient history, which does some interesting things, some nice things, and some not-so-nice things. (There is a third camp--the Unix look-alike vendors--but, in general, they attempt to emulate one of these two major products.) Now, no one is a villain. AT&T didn't really market Unix, actually; it's been more described as "Here are some source tapes, some manuals, and our best wishes. Have fun!" However, as much as was possible, the AT&T version was the standard. If something was fed back to AT&T, it would eventually, probably, make it into the next release of Unix in some form or another; but the informality of the process, the time delays, and the ease of hacking Unix make the evolution of the Berkeley system understandable. But we now have systems with fairly different sets of utilities, kernels that behave--and look--decidedly different in several ways, and the problem of portable code being not-really totally portable, but hey, it's better than assembler, right? And it now appears that the institution that fostered one of these major branches of the family is leaving. Where does that leave the BSD system people? Darn if I know. Fortunately, AT&T (Actually, now it's Western) Unix is picking up many of the features that people found attractive in BSD, so perhaps there will be a "standard" Unix in the future; but the legacy of the split will be with us for a long time. What's the point of this article? Simply that I can't defend Berkeley's action. Not intending to do something doesn't relieve you of responsibility for it; and while there was no *legal* responsibility to support BSD, continued distribution out-of-house certainly seems to impart some sort of ethical responsibility. More importantly, I guess I'm just trying to put out a cautionary tale to other universities, companies, groups of demented hackers in dimly-lighted basements, or what have you: If you want to meddle in the code, then think about what you're loosing on the world. If you really want package XYZ to change, but don't intend/want to support it, then fer cripes' sake, do the change in-house; tell the world about it, if you wish, and make the vendor track your change. But remember--it's a small world, really; and that code you modify today on an insignificant mini operating system may be floating around in the bowels of a Cray-I next year! Tired of changing BSD ioctl calls, Dave Ihnat ihuxx!ignatz