Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!seismo!rochester!ritcv!jrc From: jrc@ritcv.UUCP (James R Carbin) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: Re: Discussion about Gay Teachers Message-ID: <795@ritcv.UUCP> Date: Sat, 12-Nov-83 01:55:24 EST Article-I.D.: ritcv.795 Posted: Sat Nov 12 01:55:24 1983 Date-Received: Mon, 14-Nov-83 07:15:24 EST Lines: 98 ) If a person is applying for a job, is it generally the employer's busi- ness to know the sexual preference of the perspective[sic] employee? If not, are there any professions, such as teacher or CIA agent, for which it would be reasonable to ask for this information? If so, should gays be considered a minority for the purpose of Affirmative Action? The U.S. military has for years asked the question, "Are you a homo- sexual or have you ever had homosexual relations?" As a veteran, while I was not involved in such activities, I think the amount of homosexual activity in our military is far greater than most would want to acknowledge. If discovered, a general discharge is imminent for those involved. The rationale is that homosexuality would undermine morale. I know of some veterans who are gay who did not have their first homosexual experiences until they had completed their military service and received their honorable discharge. CIA agents, etc. are supposedly more prone to blackmail. If a homosexual is "out of the closet," then how can they be blackmailed? In many states, it is not possible to become a member of the bar if you are homosexual. HA HA - I know one gay lawyer, and for that matter, a gay doctor. Now teachers. As many educated gays are responsible individuals who sincerely want to give something very spe- cial namely themselves, to further the betterment of society by teaching in the public schools, the question of sexual preference is not germane. Would you ask a married male or female teacher in what kind of sexual activities they indulge? NO! Then why ask a single person? (Besides some married people cheat on their spouse with a homosexual partner.) Should gays be included in Affirmative Action? NO! But neither should they experience any sort of discrimination just because they are gay. 2) Should the behavior of teachers in the classroom be such that it is possi- ble for students to determine the sexual preference of their teacher? If by this question, you mean, "Should the teacher ever bring up the issue of their sexual preference," the answer is obviously NO! whether it be in or outside of the classroom. But suppose for example the teach- er is unmarried and over 30, then many in our society begin to "suspect" that the individual may be homosexual. This is particularly true if the individual does not date MOTOS. By circumstantial evidence, many students (at least in high school) will ask the question whether their teacher may well be homosexual. Would you ask that homosexual teachers periodically date MOTOS for sake of appearance? If this is true, each state legislature will have to determine how often and how such activity can be verified. It would not be unusual for a married teacher to mention their spouse or family, or students might see the teacher's spouse or family at a school function. It would be highly unlikely that a homosexual teacher (even if they were out of the closet) would talk with their students about any of their gay friends nor would they have any of their gay associates involved in any school activity. By the absence of apparent MOTOS activity, students could begin to wonder about the sexual orientation of a teacher even though this teacher never overtly said or did anything that could be considered inappropriate. 3) Does one's sexual preference have any relationship with the preferences of people with whom one came in contact as a child? Do sexual practices or the likelihood of "coming out of the closet" have any relationship with the preferences of people with whom one came in contact as a child? While environment has to be a factor in the development of any aspect of an individual, I know of several homosexuals who feel (from rather to very strongly) that they have had homosexual feelings from the time of their earliest sexual awakening. It is my own opinion that it would be the rare case in which an individual would be converted to be a homosexual because they were exposed to homosexual teachers. For someone to become homosexual, in my opinion, it takes much more than just contact with homosexuals. I even wonder if there really exists a significant population of homosexuals who "choose" that lifestyle. As it is often a difficult life I doubt that many consciously choose it. Whether someone is out of the closet or not I really don't think is influenced to any great extent by whom they have had contact with whether it be in their childhood or later in their life. Why would it? If in your childhood your house was next door to a lawyer, would you have had a greater likelihood to have to become an attorney? 4) Organizations such as the Man-Boy Love Association seem to hold the view that sex between children and adults is acceptable. Although the existing statutory rape laws make this practice illegal, do people think that there are circumstances under which this would be alright [sic]? (Let us assume that child is under 15 and that the adult is over 21 years of age.) Do the respective genders of the adult and child make a difference in this judgement? Are there circumstances under which sex between a teacher and a pupil would be alright [sic]? Whether we are talking about a MOTOS or a MOTSS situation, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD A TEACHER HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH A PUPIL. I am perplexed with this question. Is it included as a legitimate ques- tion or for its shock value? How many teachers are not over 21 years of age? Very few! I deplore the Man-Boy Association, an organization which has done inexcusable harm to the gay-movement, and an organization whose members represent the views of a very small percentage of homo- sexuals. I question the inclusion of such a question in a survey about gay teachers. Sexual activities of any kind whether MOTSS or MOTOS can not be condoned between a teacher and their students. Unfortunately it is this kind of question with potentially emotionally charged rhetoric which may blind us to the overall question. By its inclusion, it tends to paint all homosexuals as perverts & child molesters. The members of that assoc. represent only a very small fraction of the homosexual community. I think that the vast majority of gays would share the same feeling of repugnance towards that assoc. as any cross-section of our society. as ever, j.r. {allegra,seismo}!rochester!ritcv!jrc