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From: dob@ihuxj.UUCP (Daniel M. O'Brien)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Re: Paul's words not only his alone? Partial-Retraction!
Message-ID: <301@ihuxj.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 29-Nov-83 18:13:27 EST
Article-I.D.: ihuxj.301
Posted: Tue Nov 29 18:13:27 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 1-Dec-83 03:36:10 EST
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Il
Lines: 66

Before I am flamed out of existence in this world and into
the next, allow me to plead guilty to the charge of circular
reasoning in regards to my using Scripture to prove that
Paul's writings are inspired and infallible. 

I especially appreciate Byron Howes insight into some of the
Scripture I quoted. We still disagree, however, on the infallibility of
Paul in his letters. (I know that Paul did not intend to write
Scripture. He was writing letters of encourage, rebuke, etc. to others.
But by the nature of his Apostleship, though, Paul was used by God to
get out His message.) But let's leave this for now and *net* on it later.
Rather, let use deal with the question of circular reasoning.

Josh McDowell, in "Answers to Tough Questions...", has an argument
for Christians to use to claim that the Bible is the inspired Word
of God, and that is not circular. I quote (pages 147-148):

---
	Instead of assuming the Bible is the Word of God, we can begin by
demonstrating that the Scriptures are basically reliable and trustworthy
historical documents. This is confirmed by applying the ordinary test of
historical critism to the Scriptures.

	Once it is established that the Bible is a valid historical
record, the next point is realizing that Jesus Christ claims to be the
unique Son of God and that He bases this claim on His forthcoming
resurrection from the dead.

	Next, we examine the evidence for the resurrection contained 
in this historic document and find that the arguments overwhelmingly 
support the contention that Christ has risen from the dead. If this
is true, then He is the unique Son of God as He claimed to be. If He
is indeed God, then He speaks with authority on all matters.

	Since Jesus considered the Old Testament to be the Word
of God (Matthew 15:1-4; 5:17,18) and promised His disciples, who
either wrote or had control over the writings of the New Testament
books, that the Holy Spirit would bring all things back to their
remembrance (John 14:26), we can insist, with sound and accurate
logic, that the Bible is God's word. This is not circular reasoning.
It is establishing certain facts and basing conclusions on the
sound logical outcome of these facts. The case for Christianity
can be established by ordinary means of historical investigation.
----
end quote.
----

Let's keep our discussion on the net. Several have sent me mail,
suggesting that I should have stayed off the net with my initial
and subsequent messages and only sent MAIL to the persons involved. 
The tone was one of *fear* of the net. I thought that the net allowed
an open forum for discussion, rebuttal, information, etc. Or is the net
for a select few with only spectators on the sidelines. Please let me
know which it is, and if the net is not open, then I will get off
not bother with it.


-- 
		
			Daniel M. O'Brien
			AT&T Bell Laboratories
			IH 1C-202
			Naperville, IL 60566
		
			....!ihuxj!dob