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From: laura@utcsstat.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: What ever happened to Human Rights?
Message-ID: <1541@utcsstat.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 10-Dec-83 04:53:47 EST
Article-I.D.: utcsstat.1541
Posted: Sat Dec 10 04:53:47 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Dec-83 04:55:30 EST
References: <201@ccieng5.UUCP>
Organization: U. of Toronto, Canada
Lines: 66

Karl, I don't think that you have the right perspective on ``in groups''.
If you want to get rid of them it is necessary to know why they exist.
They exist because at some time somebody thought that they could not
get what they wanted by themselves.

this sort of thing goes on all the time. Some manager decides that VMS
is the world's greatest thing since sliced bread after talking to a
DEC rep. All the staff gather round and explain to the manager why he
*doesn't* want to run VMS. I decide to move my apartement so i get
5 people together to help carry the junk I have collected over the years.
You can create groups instantly.

The thing is, once you have one, they are very ueful to get other things
done. So people who find the group useful (often the leaders of the
group, if the group is large)try to keep the group around. If we
keep the "office-opposed-to-VMS" group araound, maybe we can keep 
foolish managers from buying vt100 clones which don't have detatched
keyboards. The house-moving group will be real useful when I want
to repaper my bathroom.

So the groups perpetuate. So, suppose I am a FORTRAN number cruncher and
I want to get a VAX running VMS because I have several software packages
that are designed for it, and because the Fortran compiler is better than
the 4.1bsd compiler. I am up against the "office-opposed-to-VMS". Now
i have a real problem. The "office" may not consider my needs at all.
It may be that the reasonable thing all around to do is to buy me a
725, or to run VMS over the weekend, or give me money to spend getting
time on a commercial machine in the area. Who knows what the ideal
solution is? The problem is -- THE OFFICE DOESN'T HAVE TO GIVE A DAMN.
There are lots of them, and only one of me. They can tell me where to
go, because they have the clout to get what they want regardless of what
I want or need. If they happen to be full of sympathetic people, then
I may get something fair, but what if they are not? I just get told
to stuff it.

So what do I do? Get more clout -- and fast -- before I lose this war.
If I have a lot of money, I have my clout. If I have dirt on the
director, I have clout. But if I am just another poor slob, I have to
get clout through making another group. Say i organise all the FORTRAN
users into "real programmers code with FORTRAN". 

Okay. We have a nice war going. While it was possible to disband the
"office" group, it is now impossible to disband anything. If "office"
disbands, "real programmers" are going to convert every vax in the place
to VMS. If "real programmers" disband, they lose their shot at a VMS
VAX. Of such wars are made office politics and computer centres...

Now comes along Karl -- and you want to give everyone a fair shake.
While this makes you a marvellous person, it is far, far, too late.
Everybody has been playing the war game and lobby politics for
lifetimes and lifetimes before you were born. Nobody is willing to
give up their clout which is invested in their group, since they
have legitimate fears that the other groups are going to squash them.

I do not know what to do about this. This is what I see is the greatest
problem in Canadian democracy today -- it is all government by lobby.
When you get government by lobby it becomes hard to tell one party from
another on the basis of their policies. And is is impossible to
get wonderful and brilliant new legislation through, since it will not
have a lobby...

Even if you revert to a participatory democracy you may not be able
to beat this one. Human beings organise into groups without thinking...

Laura Creighton
utzoo!utcsstat!laura