Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 beta 3/9/83; site cae780.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!seismo!hao!kpno!amd70!cae780!chuqui From: chuqui@cae780.UUCP Newsgroups: net.news.adm Subject: This bothers me a bit, so... Message-ID: <252@cae780.UUCP> Date: Fri, 23-Dec-83 16:36:44 EST Article-I.D.: cae780.252 Posted: Fri Dec 23 16:36:44 1983 Date-Received: Sun, 25-Dec-83 00:42:44 EST Organization: CAESystems, Inc. Sunnyvale Lines: 141 I got a message in the mail recently that bothered me a bit, and the more I think about it, the more I want to get it into the open to see whether or not there is a point to it and whether I replied correctly. As a quick preface, let me say that I have a little gremlin that reads *.test and returns a little note suggesting using to. instead. (no, I will NOT post this... one is more than enough..). Most replies I have gotten have been 'Thanks, I didn't know that' types. Today, I got the message following. There are a couple of things that bother me. One is that I feel that there is an implied attitude of 'If I don't approve of it, its junk'. This translates to me as censorship. The other is one of 'If it isn't about Unix (or equally technical material) then its junk'. I feel that the net is improtant for many reasons beyond the technical content. At the same time, he does seem to have a point that there is a problem with junk news, although our definitions on junk differ. His message is complete and unedited, with the exception of material that might identify him. My comments back to him are interspersed. I am interested in seeing how other people on the net feel about his comments, and whether my feelings about things ring true to what the people on the net feel. Any comments are welcome, because I felt that I was in a position of defending the net on this, and I want to know if I was on the right track... ===== message follows ==== (my comments are left flush, his indented) Net.test is a topic that really should be obsolete, because there is nothing that it tests that isn't tested just as fully using a local topic (such as to.). Because of this, ANY entry in net.test is excess baggage. I set up the gremlin so that people who don't know better or have forgotten are reminded that there are ways to check things out that don't affect the net. Normally I don't reply to comments on things my daemon ships out for me, but you made some comments I thought needed a reply... Well, the vulchers crawl out of the wood work once more. I have a few complaints about your comment to me about my few net.test messages. I agree what you say, and will probably execute next time I want to test. I certainly don't consider myself a vulture. I am a person who is very interested (and involved) in trying to solve the problems of usenet and turning it into something closer to what its potential is. As it stands, you even agree that my message has helped you, and I have tried to make it as non-irritating as possible. I am trying to inform people, not berate them. However, I sent a few harmless articles. I think it is more of a problem when we have numerous prestigious Universities like Purdue, University of Illinois, Berkley, etc. that have students that post articles to net.jokes, net.flame, etc. Those jerks are totally posting unnecessary articles to the net AND WASTING MY FEDERAL AND STATE TAX DOLLARS! Most of those dummys are also getting grants which WASTE MY SOCIAL SECURITY DOLLARS! Get my drift! I don't consider net.test articles harmless. They cost everyone money, and if EVERYONE sent a few 'harmless' articles the net would choke on itself. As far as topics such as net.jokes and net.flame, while agree that they do not serve a purpose as a technical resource on the net, there are other reasons for having them around. First, they create interest in the net. If the only material on the net was technical, there would be many fewer readers, and much of the technical material on the net would also be lost. Also, these non-technical topics allow readers to explore new areas of interest and learn more about things other than computers. One of the biggest problems in computers today are people who have no interest except computers, and anything that helps round these people out and get them interested in life has my full support. You also assume that most of the 'garbage' comes from school sites. Not so. My records show that about 50% of the net traffic is from commercial sites that pay their own way on the net. Also remember that a lot of the technical material you are on the net for comes from those schools. Wasting your Social Security? I didn't know that SSA was funding Unix related computer research, so how can it be wasting those dollars? Now, for a few of my helpless articles that I sent, I suggest that for every article that you read that is stupid, why don't you spend some time writing the real jerks on netnews. Furthermore, I am a high tech person that does significant software and hardware development during the year and I DON'T HAVE AND DON'T EVEN WANT TO READ "net.test", "net.kids", "net.jokes", etc. When I find a real jerk on the net, I DO write them. It depends on your definition of jerk. I gather that your definition of a jerk is anyone who doesn't share your interests (and only your interests) in the use of the net. That's your perogative, but I feel that is a very narrow view. The net has MANY uses for many people. You also seem to assume that these 'jerks' are NOT High tech people. Wrong. Most of them are very dedicated professionals who also happen to realize that there is more to life than computers. A VERY smart realization. You seem to have taken the proper alternative by not reading those things you aren't interested in. The wrong way is to try to force people with other interested to not read things you aren't interested in as well. The net has truly gotten out of hand, and about 98% of it is trash. For system developers like me, the other 2% is very valuable. I think your percentages are a little off, but I tend to agree with you. There is a problem on the net, and some of us are working to improve things (others simply sit back and complain, which doesn't really help). If what you are looking for is only the technical material, then a lot of usenet is waste material, but when you consider factors such as employee morale and using the net as an employment perk (I personally won't work for someone who doesn't support the net, and I know many who feel similarly) then even the problem areas are turned into assets. With respect to my few articles, put on that thinking cap and think of the thousands and thousands of articles that are purely meaningless and junk. I am sure that your telephone bill is much more significant than a few of my development test articles. Also, how much time did it really take to transmit this article at 1200 baud. If it took more than 2 seconds, I will be shocked. At 300, I will give you 6 seconds. I cut off the jokes into my system since it is a total waste and digs into the pocket for the telephone bill. And also, God will punish those who do not adhere to humanly practices. This world is tarnished with junk and we as humans will soon pay. A legitimate few test messages did no harm, but think of all the wasted time people spend on the trash of USENET. THOSE people are the ones tarnishing the beauty of USENET and should be punished! God? No matter what God we believe in (and I think our Gods are significantly different people) I think He has much better things to do that punish people who post to net.jokes. Like I say, if you don't want net.jokes in your computer, thats your choice, but I think you are taking the wrong attitude if you try to force that thinking on other people, because they have significantly different views on what is good and bad. I don't think usenet is tarnished, its just been growing faster than we were ready for.