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From: mcg@aat.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.nlang.celts
Subject: Re: Does Pro-Celtic mean anti-English?
Message-ID: <226@aat.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 21-Dec-83 17:46:03 EST
Article-I.D.: aat.226
Posted: Wed Dec 21 17:46:03 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 24-Dec-83 11:07:52 EST
References: <1359@burdvax.UUCP>
Organization: Ann Arbor Terminals
Lines: 52


Re: Pro-Celtic meaning Anti-English, it must be understood that the general
level of animosity by the Irish, Welsh and Scots toward the English is fairly
high, due to an incredible history of English mis-deeds. (If you are tired of
listening to the Irish story, read about the Highland Clearances in Scotland
following the Jacobite Wars.)

This level of animosity seems to be much higher in expatriates and the
children of these expatriates than it is in the native country in question.
I offer no explanation for this observation.

The situation is worsened by the continuing unforgiveable situation in
Northern Ireland, and by the lack of serious debate given to Welsh and Scots
Home-Rule propositions in Parliament.  So, while I agree that this group
should be used for positive discourse on the subject of Celtic Culture,
a certain amount of ill-feeling toward the English must be expected in
any conversation involving more than 1 Celt (or descendant of such).

%%% A note on the potato famine, skip if you're not historically inclined %%%

As a matter of historical interest, it is well documented (see "The Great
Hunger", or "A Short History of Ireland", the first written by an
Englishwoman (probably a bleeding-heart liberal :-))), that a great deal
of pork and beef was shipped *out* of Ireland during the Potato Famine.

The scenario looks like this:
	1) Potatoes fail
	2) Peasants begin to eat livestock (those few who have any) and cash
	   crops normally used for paying rent;
	3) Peasants cannot sell livestock to pay land rental
	4) Peasants default on land rental
	5) Landlords evict peasants, burn or "tumble" homes
	6) Landlords, now bereft of tenants, are getting skinny themselves
	7) Landlords sell their livestock to England, or move back
	   to England taking livestock with them.
	8) Wealth of Ireland, and a great deal of food, moves to England.
	9) Most that remain starve.

Now, as you point out, this is not a conspiracy on the part of England to
starve the Irish. It is thus not comparable to the Holocaust. On the other
hand, nearly 2/3's of Ireland's native population either dies or emigrates,
primarily due to a grovernment which made no effort to feed them, despite
the availability of adequate food.

In true English style, it was genocide by incompetence and buffoonery,
rather than premeditated murder.



S. McGeady
Ann Arbor Terminals