Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site umcp-cs.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!seismo!rlgvax!cvl!umcp-cs!liz
From: liz@umcp-cs.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Catching up
Message-ID: <4423@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 13-Dec-83 17:50:15 EST
Article-I.D.: umcp-cs.4423
Posted: Tue Dec 13 17:50:15 1983
Date-Received: Fri, 16-Dec-83 02:30:53 EST
References: <678@qubix.UUCP> <6384@unc.UUCP>
Organization: Univ. of Maryland, Computer Science Dept.
Lines: 82

(Sorry if you're seeing this for a second time, it didn't get far
at all the first time.)

Like Larry Bickford, I'm tired of hearing "you can't legislate
morality," too, and would like to reply to Pam's article.  (Pam,
you should tell us that it's you and not Tim writing before the
end of an article.  I assumed the letter was from Tim until you
mentioned something about him.) Pam's article was in reply to Larry
Bickford.

	I am fascinated by your concept of law and morality.  In
	the first place, laws are not "legislated morality."  They
	are restraints placed on citizens to avoid the injury of
	other citizens.

What you've just said is your moral basis for laws.  You've just
stated that something is right if it does not injure another citizen
and that something is wrong if it does injure someone else.  I
think this is the minimum that people tend to agree with these days
and our laws tend to reflect that.

	(Please explain to me the morality implicit in the fact
	that we drive on the right side of the road in this country
	rather than the left.)

Ok.  Some laws don't reflect right and wrong as much as they do a
need for order.  That doesn't contradict the fact that a lot of
laws do reflect on a morality we agree on.

	Murder, theft, and fraud are illegal, not because they are
	immoral but because a society which permitted these things
	could not function.

I wouldn't be so sure.  Such societies do exist although probably
do not function as well as others...

	To put it simply, it would be immoral for me to lie about
	someone, but it would not be illegal unless the lie injured
	the person physically or financially.  Gluttony is considered
	by the Bible to be immoral, but it is not illegal because
	the person who indulges in it injures nobody but himself.

There are not laws against everything some people consider immoral
since you have to have a lot of people thinking that something is
immoral before you can have a law against it.  Also, I suspect that
some things with less direct impact on society and which so many
people are guilt of would be impractical to have as laws -- the
courts are busy enough already...

What's the purpose of law?  To promote the peace and well being of
each member of society and thus of society as a whole; to allow
each person to persue happiness as he sees fit.  We legislate
morality when we make heroin, etc, illegal.  Someone can argue that
if we made heroin legal that then the drug wouldn't be so expensive
and addicts wouldn't have to pay so much and wouldn't have to steal.
But, we keep it illegal even though he is hurting himself primarily
-- no one else except in his stealing.  Why?  Because we see it as
wrong and because we don't want something to be legal which is so
destructive to individuals -- we would have far more addicts if it
were legal...

By the way, as far as making Christianity a state religion is
concerned, I would not be for it even though I am a Christian.  It
*might* work for a generation *if* whoever ruled respected other
people's religions and did not force conversions and *if* laws
reflected Christian principles of morality as they are applied to
relationships among people, and not our relationship with God
(because God gives us free choice whether or not to believe in him;
it's wrong for us as people to force others to believe).  But, if
I'm not convinced that all this would be carried out correctly in
the first generation or so, I'm even more unsure that after a couple
generations leaders would continue as they should.  I'm afraid they
would forget to respect people who believe different things while
their own beliefs would probably become only a matter of form and
not life or Jesus...

				-Liz Allen

-- 
Univ of Maryland, College Park MD	
Usenet:   ...!seismo!umcp-cs!liz
Arpanet:  liz%umcp-cs@CSNet-Relay