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Path: utzoo!watmath!watdaisy!saquigley
From: saquigley@watdaisy.UUCP (Sophie Quigley)
Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women
Subject: Re: relevancy of this topic to net.women
Message-ID: <367@watdaisy.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 19-Dec-83 14:52:00 EST
Article-I.D.: watdaisy.367
Posted: Mon Dec 19 14:52:00 1983
Date-Received: Tue, 20-Dec-83 04:38:50 EST
References: <4446@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 82

I am a woman and I have been both the "asker" and "askee".  I used to be
the "askee" when I was very young because that was the way things were.
Well, I hated it very much, because I was suffering all the time either
because some guy I liked showed no interest in me at all, and I thought
there was nothing I could do about it, or because he actually liked me
but was so shy and inept at showing it or "asking me out" that i had to
wait a long long long time before we ever got to hold hands.  After a 
while I got fed up with all this wallpaper-flower s--t and decided to take
the matters in my own hands.  Except for a few cases where the decisions
were quite balanced, I've been the one initiating most of my recent affairs.
Well, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I like it MUCH better this way.  It
may be due to the fact that I have a assertive (some would say agressive or
overbearing) personnality, but I hate not to be in control of things.
I've also noticed that I am more capable than a lot of guys I know at 
determining whether someone is actually interested in me or not, and I usually
manage to find this out before I make a complete fool of myself; therefore,
I've managed to pull myself emotionally out of potentially hurtful situations
before getting burned, and never had really to deal with rejection.

Of course, I am very lucky, for this matter, to be in a field where I am 
completely surrounded by men, so maybe it isn't fair to compare my experience
with that of many men who feel that there their case is quite hopeless because
they don't know too many women and therefore think that they must persevere with
the same woman even after it is quite obvious that she is not interested in
them.

This will probably cause a few flames, but I have noticed one thing about
many men and the way they deal with women: they have no idea whatsoever about
whether a woman is interested in them as a potential lover, or friend or
neither.  We seem to be talking quite a different vocabulary.  It seems
that many men need to be TOLD something before they understand it.  It is
quite upsetting as a woman to be hounded by people who do not understand
subtle hints;  It is VERY upsetting when you are asked out by someone you
like, and accept, thinking that you are going to have a fun time together,
and that person ends up harassing you trying to kiss you, and put their hands
here and there on you even after you've tried to make it clear to that person
that you were not interested in getting physically "closer" to them. I have
found myself forced to be rude to a few men to get them to understand that
"No, I am not going to lsleep with you or kiss you or whatever it is that
you want".  Having had a few of those experiences, I tend to prefer shy men,
but then the problem is reversed: they don't understand that you like them
unless you tell them or grab their hand or try to kiss them.  I try not to
do the last two as it reminds me of some of the hunting tactics used by those
awful sticky men I described above, so I usually end up having to tell them
I like them, or ask them if I could kiss them, which makes me feel TERRIBLY
silly because I've always felt that things should happen like in movies
where people's mouths and heads and noses are drawn to each other like magnets.

Before the flaming start, I have to add that there are men who are not like 
the ones I just described.  I have known a few men who have managed to 
understand that I was interested in being their girlfriend/lover/whatever and
others who understood easily that i was not and who are still friends with me
and all sorts of others who understand all sorts of other things that I tell
them without talking, so my criticism is not directed at all men.

Now, to equalise the blame for all this, women are not perfect either.  I have
seen women give "false signals", letting the man believe that he should
continue showing his interest in them, and that he has good reasons for hope.
Having been guilty of this a few times myself, I can attempt to explain the
reasons behind such actions.  It is wonderful to feel that people like you
and find you attractive, so I want people to continue doing it, especially if
I like them.. maybe I'm leading them on, but it's not a problem right now, so
lets enjoy this while it lasts. Another reason is that flirting is fun.  There
are men I like, and men I'd like to be lovers with, but for some reasons I
can't,  usually because it would hurt a third party, or create some other
non-sexual problems, or because I feel I couldn't really be fair with them, or
they couldn't be fair with me, there are lots of reasons, but I do want them 
to know that I like them and am attracted to them, so I try to let them know.
This is probably unfair to some guys who would probably be better off directing
their attention somewhere else, but I usually try not to encourage those.  It is
not always easy to judge though and one makes mistakes.
 
Coming back to the orignal question of who has more power, I don't really know
whether one position is more powerful than the other. Personnally, I feel more
powerful when I am the ask-er and I prefer things that way, because I don't
like to feel powerless.  I think that it depends more on the people involved
and the position they put themselves in than the "official" position they are 
in.  I know quite a few women who would never dream of asking a guy out and
who still manage to keep complete control on the whole thing.  I think that
as far as personnal relationships are concerned, there are many different ways
of gaining power, one of which is by acting completely powerless, which is
one in which women are probably more proficient for historical reasons.