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Path: utzoo!watmath!watrose!dmmartindale
From: dmmartindale@watrose.UUCP (Dave Martindale)
Newsgroups: net.singles,net.women
Subject: Re: Communication, generalizations, etc.
Message-ID: <148@watrose.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 23-Dec-83 02:17:16 EST
Article-I.D.: watrose.148
Posted: Fri Dec 23 02:17:16 1983
Date-Received: Fri, 23-Dec-83 07:07:08 EST
References: <370@watdaisy.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 54

Generalizations, unfair though they may be to individuals, exist
because they sum up a piece of information that was, at least at one
time and at least to some person, USEFUL.  Sophie may know very well
that some men are adept at subtlety, that some communicate well
non-verbally.  Yet she still says "men are crummy at being subtle"
because she has learned that this is often enough true that she has
noticed this as a commom characteristic, and remembers it.  Maybe it is
something she will find herself watching out for, and being careful
about, when getting to know someone new.  Maybe she just remembers it
because the frustration of poor communication with someone was at one
time very important to her.  It is simply part of her experience, which
will affect her interactions with men in the future.  Sometimes it may
be a good thing, sometimes bad, but that's the way learning works.

Generalizations are thus not necessarily "bad" things; they become bad
only if you forget that they do not apply to all individuals.  Or if
you take someone else's generalizations and adopt them as your own
without critically examining them to see if they are in fact true in
the world you inhabit.

Ok, (can-of-worm opener in hand) does anyone want to discuss
generalizations about what women (and, by symmetry, men) are like?
REMEMBERING ALWAYS THAT THEY DON'T APPLY TO EVERYONE IN THE GROUP, what
things have you observed about women in general or men in general.
(Things that YOU observed, not things that your parents told you or
that "everyone knows") Why do you believe that they are true?  How
often are they not true?  I realize this is potentially touchy stuff,
but if people can consider what they say carefully and avoid baiting
each other, it could be very interesting.

Sophie's "men are crummy at being subtle" is a good example.  She
believes it's a good generalization - that it is true of many men.  I
believe that women can also be unsubtle and insensitive, but maybe
women in general are better at communicating.  I've heard this before,
and my experience would support it somewhat, but I tend to try harder
to communicate well with a woman than with a man.  And the
highest-quality communication that I've experienced, the "most
noise-free channel", was with men.  So I don't really believe it.  Do
you?  Why?

Another one:  Sometimes I get the impression that women are looking for
a man who will "take care of them".  More generally, someone who is
"stronger" than they, someone who they can "look up to".  This does
seem to explain why some women get involved with the men that they do,
and why their relationships proceed the way that they do.  (Women who
really want to considered equal to men still often seem to end up in
relationships where the man clearly dominates.  Why?) This is very
frustrating at times, since I don't WANT to be looked up to - I want to
be looked across at.  Is there a better explanation for this?  Am I
imagining it entirely?  Does "equal" mean something different to me
than it does to these women?

	Dave Martindale
	{ihnp4,allegra,decvax}!watmath!dmmartindale