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From: phipps@fortune.UUCP (Clay Phipps)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Trying Too Hard/Setting Up That First Date
Message-ID: <2126@fortune.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 4-Jan-84 01:02:48 EST
Article-I.D.: fortune.2126
Posted: Wed Jan  4 01:02:48 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 31-Dec-83 04:25:31 EST
References: <329@abnjh.UUCP>
Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA
Lines: 61

[This replaces an earlier follow-up, hopefully cancelled,
that was written in haste to be finished before a system shutdown]

I had intended to reply to Denise's lament about an unsuccessful
attempt to set up a first date over the phone,
but when I next logged on the system, I found that Jim Collymore
had done such a good job of expressing my thoughts on the topic
that there is no need for me to elaborate on them.

Some additional thoughts might be of interest, though.

Having been brought up in the Deep South (despite my Silicon Valley
residence), I noticed that one of the traditional rules
was that a young woman should never hurt the feelings of a man
who calls for a date.  Some women chose (or were taught) to implement 
this rule by being "busy" for whatever time the man had in mind.
As best I can figure, this was done to avoid hurting the young man's
feelings by avoiding telling him outright that she was not interested.
As I recall, part of the system was that the young man should,
through repeated attempts, eventually catch on to the woman's disinterest,
but explicit rejection was avoided for all but the most obnoxious.
I didn't like the system then, and don't now, as it leads to wasted
effort that is better spent on other women.

However, when I am trying to set up a date with a woman who has much
of her time already spoken for, and she is not being helpful
about choosing a day and time for us to meet, 
deja vu will hit, and I may well get discouraged (like in Denise's case)
too, especially if I've already had a rough day.
If I've kept my wits about me, though, I may well say something like
"hmmm ... setting this up has become more challenging than I expected;
maybe you should suggest a time that's workable for you",
or something like that.
That is almost guaranteed to clear things up in a hurry.
But frankly, I think that the woman should have already taken some 
initiative to work together to pick a workable time
by the time I've heard enough "I'm busy"s from her
that I have to ask explicitly for her assistance.

Another explanation for Denise's lack of helpfulness might have been
that she was interrupted from something that was time-critical
(I have been rather untalkative on occasion when friends call,
especially when cooking -- the oil in the wok is just about ready,
the garlic is properly tanned, I'm ready to drop the shrimp (or whatever) in,
... RRRRRing ! -- there's the phone!).  In that case, all that's needed
is to tell the caller why you would rather not talk now,
and (important) suggest a time to call back.

A little positive reinforcement through action or suggestion
goes a long way, and it will be noticed (if not, look elsewhere).
Most important, it drastically reduces the chance of being misread
by someone who is likely to do so -- someone you've never been out with.

The corresponding advice is applicable to men, of course.

-- Clay Phipps

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