Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site inuxg.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!ihnp4!inuxc!inuxg!burton From: burton@inuxg.UUCP (Thomas Burton) Newsgroups: net.games.frp Subject: Re: Creative Use of Spells Message-ID: <256@inuxg.UUCP> Date: Fri, 13-Jan-84 13:30:42 EST Article-I.D.: inuxg.256 Posted: Fri Jan 13 13:30:42 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 14-Jan-84 03:44:46 EST Organization: AT&T Consumer Products Div., Indianapolis Lines: 159 The said 3 level MU, had a Screech Owl as a familiar. The familiar was sent aloft, invisible (of course) with a 15 foot piece of string, with a loop at the bottom. Hooking the Xorn with the string, it flew upwards. The Xorn, cut the string a number of times, but there was always more string..... Why in the world would the Xorn cut the string?! Why not just haul himself up the string toward the owl and eat it? Also, how long does it take an Owl to fly up 1/2 mile? How long does the feather fall spell last? Since I wasn't there, I don't know all the circum- stances, but I bet someone was sloppy with both the time keeping and with running the Xorn. What's to prevent the Xorn from Phasing out? Even if the party is not inaudible, pray tell me, how are the monsters supposed to attack invisible characters? They literally can run through the "Dungeon", dodging the swings of clumsy monsters, and get them to fight one another. If you would read the rules, you would see that even against invisible creatures, monsters (or any attackers) get a chance to hit, although it is at -4 to the normal chances. Besides, how in the world does the invisible party maneuver without falling all over each other; when everyone is invisible, they're invisible to each other as well! "Silence 15' radius" would just compound the problem, because then they couldn't hear each other either. As far as dodging clumsy monsters, how many "clumsy" monsters does your DM throw at you? In my dungeon, there are usually several groups of intelligent (or nearly so) well-organized groups of monsters (or even humans/demi-humans), who would have no trouble figuring out how to locate and attack a noisy bunch of invisible adventurers! In typical Gygax fashon, TSR requires that you buy their magazine to get the official patches to their buggy rules system. There is still nothing that says that one apprentice could not Tensor's Disk another, and vice versa. (Pulling each other up by their proverbial britches). I checked. The rules do imply ( I know I said IMPLY) that a MU cannot hop on his own Disk. I do like your idea of two apprentice's sitting on each other's disk, which might be useful in the short run. Since you can direct your disk to move within a certain area, the one could send his disk forward a little way, the other could then move the disk that the previous MU was sitting on forward, etc, seesawing back and forth. Similarly, one MU could direct his disk to always stay x paces in front of him, while the other could direct his disk to stay x-1 paces behind him, so they would always be chasing each other. Of course, steering would be a problem. This IS what I would call clever use of the spell; but it's not the same as what you were doing to it. Tell me, why is the statement "Why don't we all go out and kill things to get rich" against a hobgoblins nature? I might be able to believe that a Chaotic Evil creature would get a saving throw if it was asked to show mercy, but not just to go out and slay. Any lawful-good characters in your group, Steve? I would hope not with that statement. How many charm spells are you going to throw to get a hoard of Orcs or Hobgoblins? Besides, I know its possible to use monsters as cannon-fodder; it's just that your article made it sound like it was trivial, and failed to take into account some of the difficulties and risks involved. Procedure for capturing a basilisk (1st - 3rd level party) 1] Meet Basilisk 2] Don't Panic 3] Quickly throw your web spell (hopefully the basilisk was surprised, so someone isn't dead yet). 4] Get your strongest fighter to put his helmet on backwards, and have someone guide his way through the web to the trapped basilisk. 5] Throttle the creature till it faints. 6] Put it in a box with a hole out one side. Point box in one direction, and watch Umber Hulks die...... Well, that at least clarified the statement "Box a basilisk". However, the parenthetical staement in 3 is one hell of a caveat. Also, your fighter is going to wear his helm backwards? Ever worn a helm, Steve? A little uncomfortable at best. Besides, it takes a long time for even 18 strength characters to wade through a web spell; how long does it last? In the mean time he is tearing apart the web trying to get to the Basilisk, who is probably also working on tearing out of the web (how strong is a Basilisk? Good question); by the time the Fighter gets to the Basilisk, the web would probably be weak enough to allow the Basilisk to slip out as well. Also, the one guiding the fighter through the web will probably be subjected to the Basilisk's gaze. So, I'll grant you it's possible, Steve, but its not as trivial as you made it seem. No. The Medusa is already dead from looking at the basilik, (or in some equally rules-buggy manner). Now, cut off the Medusa's head, and put it on a Tensor's floating Disk. Float the head out in front of the party. Watch dragons turn to stone. Okay, but how long does a Medusa's head still have its magic after it's dead (no fair resorting to Mythology)? Also, how long is it useful before it rots? I still believe your DM's letting you off too easy with your monsters. >> Handling of any such poison requires great care; even Assassins must >> make saving throws against accidental poisoning when trying to handle >> poisons and poisoned weapons. I would probably allow the players to >> try to extract poison from a dead creature, but there would be lots >> of saving throws required, and the poison would have to be treated >> by an Alchemist to put it in a suitable form for use on weapons (as >> well as make it stable enough to keep without losing potency). A good kludge. Isn't it a shame, that AD&D did not include such a system in the basic rules? Even in the advanced rules?? Like hell that's a kludge! I got that out of the DMG! Then there was the time a 1st level hobbit thief, trying to steal a magic sword from a Black Dragon's pile of gold, accedentally woke up the dragon. Even though he was invisible (of course), he realized that this was one creature that would not be bothered about the nicities of getting a direct hit in. So he attacked to Subdue!! One sucessful 3 point shot, and a 04% roll later, the 1st level hobbit rode out atop his new dragon...... suuuuurrrreeeee.... (but the rules make it very easy to do). Like I said, that dragon should have looked for every opportunity to turn against that little halfling thief. Also, high level intelligent creatures get a chance to see invisible things. I agree that it is easier to subdue; I've had a group do it with only a 10% chance of success; however, sometimes the followup is neglected (which was my point). How about Psionics?? I saw a first level thief go from 1st to 6th level, in as many advantures, by simply going out to the local swamp and Psionicly blowing away all the brauntasaurouses (sp?). Of course this was not as bad as the 1st level fighter, who accedentally said "Demogorgon", met him, and blew him away with a Ego Crush (he had a 2% chance of doing so). How many players in your group HAVE psionics, for goodness sake. Psionics have their own problems (most of us realize that!), and few D.M.'s even use them, fewer still without modifications. That fighter, by the way, was making some really good rolls, let me tell you: less than 5% chance of even attracting Demogorgon's attention, much less summoning him directly (probably would have sent someone else instead), and then to make a 2% roll for Ego Crush!? Also, your DM isn't exacting the correct punishment for wanton use of psionics, which is lots of encounters with other Psionic creatures (such as Intellect Devourers, Thought eaters, Brain moles, etc). Sure, the rules have holes; I never denied it. A good DM, however, will know how to fix them without always resorting to rewriting the rules. What other game systems do you play (just curious what your comparing AD&D with). Doug Burton ATT-CP Indianapolis inuxg!burton